not enough water

[saltfly]

Well heres one for you Florida guys. A friend of mines next door neighbor, is having a problem with the alarm on her 225 vmax Yamaha. it’s a cooling problem. She bought a 3 hull pontoon boat. Well I think most of you already know were I’m going. The manufacturer didn’t set the motor mount back far enough to keep the motor from ventilating. So once the motor gets up above 4500 rpms. Theirs to much air getting to the water pick ups. So the alarm go’s off. Naturally, the dealer keeps trying to fix it, but can’t. So he told her not to go over 4500 rpm’s. Are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!! So she got the idea to lower the motor, which is going somewhat in the right direction. She bought a manual jack plate. But not knowing to much about them. She got one that only had a 6 inch sit back. So the problem isn’t fixed. She still needs more water not air at the pick ups. So now with out spending a arm and a leg. What can she do? How do you guys with flats boats, get the max amount of water to your water pickups? Isn’t their a shallow water pickup that funnels more water to the pick ups, or a way to increase the water pickup size? I’ve thought of telling her to get an extension kit, to lengthen the motors shaft, so it will sit a little deeper and give her more adjustment in the jack plate, but it would be just as cheap to get another jack plate with a lot more sit back. So does any of you have a idea? I feel bad for her. She’s already spent a ton on money on this thing. That’s why some people that call them self’s boat designer really get to me. They build something they think is a good idea, with out any RND and expect their customers to iron out their kinks. These boats should have a lot more set back on the motor bracket, or build the center pontoon shorter near the stern. This would keep the motor in clean water and keep the air away from the pickups. I know I know I was to dam long winded. That's what happens, when you get old.  

[wingtime]

is the water level with the cavitation plate when she is running?  Sounds like the motor is just too high.  If this is a new boat I'd be all over them to make it right or give her her money back.

[Blue Agave]

Is the boat rated for a 225?  If so, its a no brainer.  Return the boat and ask for a full refund.

[fitz73222]

A picture of the current setup, with the engine in the normal trim position would go a long way to help us understand the condition. Side view prefered.

[GoneFission]

New boat - new motor - still under warranty?  Let the dealer handle it.

[saltfly]

This is  not a new boat. She’s had it for few years or I would tell her to take it back. My friend just told me about it yesterday and ask for my opinion. The boat is kept in the water, so I’m going to look at it this week end. This is one of those things, where a dealer, I think knew the problems, had the boat for a while, saw a widow that didn’t know about boats but wanted one, for when her family visits. I think he stuck her with it. He continued to take her money telling her it was this or that. While it was the boats design the whole time. Now another dealer is trying to help her, but he is at his wits end. The motor is as low as it can go on the mount. I well tell you the newer versions of this boat has a tidally different design and they have no problems. The dealer she is dealing with said he thinks he can retro fit this boat, but their is no guaranty and it would cost a fair amount of money to do so. That’s why I was thinking of one of those shallow water pickups, but I don’t know much about them. You don’t see them used up this away. So does anyone have experience with them? Do any of you think they would work for this problem? Personally I think the manufacturer should fix it for free. I think they knew about the problems and fixed it on future models and should make good on their older models. I did forget, the boat is rated for this motor.

[Blue Agave]

Personally I think the manufacturer should fix it for free. I think they knew about the problems and fixed it on future models and should make good on their older models.

I agree!  Has she tried to contact the manufacture?  I would contact the manufacture and get their thoughts on a fix. If they can't fix the hull ask them to foot the bill for a low water pickup install.

[Capt Matt]

A lot of the 2 stroke v max motors came with factory low water pick ups
Capt Matt

[seabob4]

Walt, has she dropped the motor as far as it will go?  In other words, mounted in the top hole?  It may bury the LU and decrease performance, but at least it will be getting the water it needs.  Keep in mind 'toons have a "mounting pad" that is pre-drilled...is there enough room to the lower side to drill 4 new mounting holes lower than the existing ones?

In other words, if she really wants this boat to work, there is more than one way to skin a cat.  Even bolting on a 1/2" aluminum plate to the existing mount can give you a whole new canvas to work with.  Do this and then you can play with engine height all you want.  And a relatively inexpensive way to do it.  Yes, you can consider a gearcase with low water pickups, but that's gonna be pricey if she can't get decent money for her existing gearcase.

A pic of the arse end of the boat showing the center log and motor mount would be helpful...

[saltfly]

Yea Bob the motor is mounted as low as it can go. Since I’m going down to look at it on sat. I’ll try to take a few pic’s. Also she did put a jack plate, with a 6 inch set back on it. I’m going to look at that to. It maybe one that can be modified to be able to drop the motor lower. A ½ inch alium. Plate just maybe the way to go. She could have it drilled to fit the existing mounting holes then add lower mounting holes to mount the jack plate, then mount the motor to the jack plate. That would give her the 6 inch set back and lower the whole thing. Then use the jack plate to fine tune the motor height.

[seabob4]

There you go Walt.  Sounds to me from what you've described that the center log is just throwing off too much turbulent water for the prop to get a grip at speed, and not allow the pickup to get the water flow.  Unfortunately, for the prop to see good clean water, and the pickup to get the pressure it needs, the LU may really be buried, and drag rears it's head...

But it's a toon, so no big deal, right?

[saltfly]

Ok guys, sorry for taking so long in getting back. But I’ve been trying to catch up to her so I could get a pic. With the motor trimmed down. But I think you can see the problem as I see it. Its that dam center log. Its 30 to 36 inches in front of the motor mount. And you can see how close the top of the motor mount is to the water as well as the diamiter of the toons. I think the only fix, is to get the motor back farther from the center log. I guess the motor could use an extension kit but it would sit the lower unit to deep. Some one told me the manufacturer is now building this boat with a 4 t0 6 foot tunnel in the center log. This solved the problem on newer boats. Seem to me he admits the old ones had a problem. It also seems to me he should make the older boats whole. Or am I wrong?

[seabob4]

Walt, that whole setup just looks wrong.  Looks like the LU is just going to buried when trimmed down, and yet still won't see the non-ventilated water it needs at the pick ups.  And that is about the most effed up place to put a battery switch that I've ever seen!  I'm sure there is some sort of removable panel to get at it from inside the boat, but just the location...WTF?

[saltfly]

Yea bob I was hoping you would jump in here. It is one screwed up mess. If I  remember right the vmax is a high performance motor, I doubt they expected it to go on a toon. Yamies are sensitive to cooling more so then other motors. I have a hard time even running my hpdi on a two hose ear muff., to winterize it. It also looks as though if it is pushed back, it would sit even lower, because of the mounts angle. I don’t think this is going to an easy fix. I can make a drawing of a part to replace the back half of the jack plate and get it built at a local fabricator. If done right and supported right I could ,  push it straight back , instead of just following the jack plate design. Do you think getting it back to say a 14 inch set back and keeping the same water line on the motor ,would be enough to fix or at least help some?

[seabob4]

Walt, you may not like this, but here's what I would do...

Walk away from this.  There is nothing short of having the builder rip out the center tube and replace it that will fix the issue.  Which leaves you and whomever throwing money and time at a problem that most likely won't ever be fixed, short of mounting the motor on an Armstrong bracket with 30" of setback!  Short of taking some sort of legal action against the builder and dealer, there is not much you guys can do.  A "pig in a poke", so to speak.

Unless you owe this lady your life, time to face reality.  Taking this issue to THT might get someone's attention enough so that things are made right, as this forum simply doesn't have the firepower to get noticed.  That's up to you.

Just my opinion, you understand...