1971 Flatback

[LilRichard]

Hello all-

This is my first post, but I have been lurking here for a while now.  I just acquired a 1971 Flatback, and will be beginning the long task of restoring her.  The plan is a new transom and floor, refurbing the cap, and refinishing the console... then onto a new motor and rigging.  Easier said than done though, right?

I have done a some restoration before- but not to the level of which I will be attempting on this boat.  I will be posting pics along the way, and certainly would request any feedback (both positive and negative) that you all may provide.

I have spent quite a bit of time reading restoration threads, but that being said, I will be posting up some questions as it goes along... hopefully not repeating too much of what has already been discussed.

One question that I do have is where do people prefer to start?  So far my plan of attack (per advice from Tommy at Hammerhead) was to cut out the floor and front cap, then have the inside and outside (to remove bottom paint) sandblasted.  From there I was planning on doing the bottom first- as I have some cracks in the gelcoat that need attention.  Your thoughts?  I just figured I'd rather get the bottom done first, then work on the inside.

Also, what is the best (read: safest) way to turn these boats over?

Thanks in advance eveyone.  Here is a starter pic- there is more in my gallery.

[northguy]

Wow, it is refreshing to see that i am not the only one taking such thing on. I just started a 1973 170 project. Hopefully I can get some pics posted.
  Have fun

[JimCt]

Great to have another re-builder here to commiserate with :!:

You task plan sounds good.  Only change I suggest is to leave the floor in place for rolling the hull over.  It will add rigidity to the structure so you will have less flexing of the hull.

You mentioned sandblasting on the outside & inside...what needs sandblasting on the inside?

Here's how warthog5 did the operation with his Mako:
http://classicmako.com/projects/xshark/bw7.htm
Notice the internal bracing to support the hull shape.

One other thing which has to do with my project.  If you are planning on replacing the flip-back cooler seat please let me know.  I need one for my 240.

Again, welcome to the fun & games!

[LilRichard]

I was advised to sandblast it inside and out so that all of the foam reminants and other residue would be removed from the inside, and I would have a *fairly* clean, almost-ready to glass surface to start with.  Obviously this does not preclude the requisite sanding/grinding for any work areas- but just that it gives me a nice surface to start.

I saw that post of Wart's before (read the whole thread previously)- thanks for the link.  However my concern is the rigidity of the sides of the boat, because form the pics, it looks like the boat is rolled onto it's side, then onto it's bottom, right?  Will my hull withstand that kind of force?  The sides of my boat (including gunwhales) are less than confidence inspiring....

Thanks.

[LilRichard]

Oh, one other question- I am in the market for a good work canopy- does anyone know where to find them reasonably priced?  I was going to just construct my own out of galvanized pipe and a tarp, but I cannot find the fittings in the angles I need.  I have seen a few "DIY" kits, but each fitting is like $10.  Just trying to figure out if I can build one of these on a budget.

[JimCt]

Build one yourself with a conduit or wood frame.  You could also get something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20x10-He ... 9460QQrdZ1

[JimCt]

Regarding rolling your boat, look closely at warthog5's pictures.  There are wood braces running from one inside gunnel to the other to hold the shape of the hull.  With that kind & amount of bracing you should be "good to go".  Without bracing there's a high certainty of distorting the hull & popping the cap.

[LilRichard]

Regarding rolling your boat, look closely at warthog5's pictures.  There are wood braces running from one inside gunnel to the other to hold the shape of the hull.  With that kind & amount of bracing you should be "good to go".  Without bracing there's a high certainty of distorting the hull & popping the cap.

I did indeed notice those- but was still concerned.  Anyone know how those were fastened to the sides?  Glass?

[LilRichard]

So I managed to build my canopy, and get the boat off the trailer this weekend.



I finally got to the fun stuff (cutting the floor out) and began to realize that the hull is in worse shape than I had hoped.  I only have half the floor out, but it seems that both the port and center stringers have delaminated from the hull.  You can see in the close up of the port stringer, the bottom arrow is pointing to where the stringer has separated.  You can put weight on the stringer and watch it move, and watch water squirt out of the bottom.  Also, the upper arrow is pointing out a crack in the stringer.  



So I guess from here I will finish removing the floor and begin removing the stringers.  I talked to SeaDog and he said that I may need to put the boat in a cradle or the hull could contort without the stringers.  However I have seen some stringer replacements on the Mako forum, and people did it on the trailer.  Anyone have any other opinions?  Is it time to build a cradle?  I have it pretty well supported on the stands- but I don't want to take any chances either.

Last- what stringer setup do you guys recommend?  I saw where Wilson Alaya built his on a form out of glass- that seemed like a good setup.  But I have also seen JamesC and a few others using composites.  Pros / Cons of both please?

Thanks guys!

Rick

[JimCt]

Why remove the stringers?  I have the exact same delamination situation in my 240.  In my case, pulling the stringers from the boat would have been a BIG project.

What I'm doing is opening up the top of the stringers, removing the foam (with the help of a steel paint stirrer on the end of a drill), re-glassing the stringers to the hull, refoaming and closing up the top of the stringers again.  

The cause of the loose stringers in my boat appears to be a combination of poorly wetted-out roving (and not enough roving) and normal flexing of the hull.  Enough flexing and the glass strands in the roving start snapping one after another and, after 30 some odd years, the stringer has broken free.

The cover looks good!  Makes all the difference if you can keep things dry.

[LilRichard]

Thanks for your input Jim- that's exactly why I was posting up before moving ahead... to get some direction.  Seadog had also mentioned reusing the stringers- I guess I figured they were not salvagable.  So the moral of the story is (after removing the foam and refoaming) to rough up the glass on and around the stringers, and just begin laying alternating layers of mat/roving?  That certainly will make things easier.

I was also planning on removing a good portion of the center stringer to put the tank in the floor... and was told that glassing in a few runs of PVC down the middle will give me some added rigidity.  You also subscribe to that practice?

[JimCt]

Avoid cutting out any stringers, or parts of them, no matter where they are.  Their purpose is to give rigidity to the hull.  If one is missing, cut or broken, the hull will flex excessively when pounding along in a seaway. With the hull flexing, other structurals and joint areas will start letting go.  The box pattern of the stringers (girders, actually) provides linear and torsional stiffness which PVC pipe cannot match.  With the original girder structure in place & bonded properly to the hull, she will be sound as a nut and be able to handle more than you can.

Was the original tank uder the floor?  If it was, I'd suggest putting the new tank where the old one was.  Saves having to re-engineer the boat.

[LilRichard]

Original tank was above floor in the center console... which left zero space for anything else.  I'd like to get the tank in the floor... so the question I suppose is can I keep my original stringers and still sink a tank in the floor, or do I have to re-engineer the boat and build a new stringer system?

[scott_gunn]

As far as I know, most 222s have a gas tank under the floor in the middle right underneath the console.  You should be able to put one there.  My advice would be to move it as far as possible forward so that you can do things like add a bracket, close the transom, hang a heavier motor, etc. without making it too stern heavy.

[billh1963]

My stringers had separated from the hull as well....a common problem. Glass them back down and follow Jim's advice.