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Author Topic: Quick sanding and order of operations question  (Read 681 times)

July 27, 2012, 01:42:21 PM
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OldSkool67

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Quick sanding and order of operations question
« on: July 27, 2012, 01:42:21 PM »
I have knocked the boat down to fiberglass and very little of the orginal gelcoat.

I've done most of the work with a orbital and 60 grit. Im getting ready to start doing some fairing and repairs on some trouble areas.

Should I go 150 then 220 then fairing and patch work or patch work first then start working my way up to the 220?

Can I skip the 150 and just go to the 220?

Thanks in advance.
Ive never met an alligator I didnt want to turn into a wallet and side of nuggets.

67 flatback

July 27, 2012, 03:26:16 PM
Reply #1

wingtime

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Re: Quick sanding and order of operations question
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2012, 03:26:16 PM »
I'd go 80,120 then 320 but I'm sure others with more experience will chime in.   60 is very course to start out with.
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July 27, 2012, 04:40:57 PM
Reply #2

seabob4

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Re: Quick sanding and order of operations question
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2012, 04:40:57 PM »
36...kinda like gravel on paper!!!


Corner of 520 and A1A...

July 27, 2012, 05:27:05 PM
Reply #3

slvrlng

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Re: Quick sanding and order of operations question
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2012, 05:27:05 PM »
If you have it that far why not go ahead and throw a single coat of resin over the whole thing to seal it. It would bond any short fibers and seal off any porosities, or do you have any of those issues? Then block it down, then fair and prime. So patch , fair, prime. Start with 80 to even it up, 36 is too much except where you need to remove a lot of material fast. Follow the directions on the primer to get the proper grit before priming for the best adhesion.
Lewis
       1983 222 Osprey "Slipaway"
       1973 19-6 "Emily Lynn"
      

July 27, 2012, 05:36:13 PM
Reply #4

seabob4

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Re: Quick sanding and order of operations question
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2012, 05:36:13 PM »
Lewis, I was kidding on the 36!  Hate to run a grinder over the finger tips with THAT stuff!!! :shock:  :shock:  :shock:


Corner of 520 and A1A...

July 27, 2012, 05:41:03 PM
Reply #5

dirtwheelsfl

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Re: Quick sanding and order of operations question
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2012, 05:41:03 PM »
The rougher the surface you apply the fairing material and patches to, the better. Like slvrlng said any bare glass is gonna need a skim coat of epoxy about mayo consistency. Ive always just hit that with 120 then high build then 220 followed by successive primer coats and 320 before topcoat. Thats just my version of it though...

July 27, 2012, 05:52:08 PM
Reply #6

OldSkool67

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Re: Quick sanding and order of operations question
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2012, 05:52:08 PM »
Quote from: "slvrlng"
If you have it that far why not go ahead and throw a single coat of resin over the whole thing to seal it. It would bond any short fibers and seal off any porosities, or do you have any of those issues? Then block it down, then fair and prime. So patch , fair, prime. Start with 80 to even it up, 36 is too much except where you need to remove a lot of material fast. Follow the directions on the primer to get the proper grit before priming for the best adhesion.

when you say throw a single coat on, do you mean just roll a coat of resing on it?

I do have exposed fibers and porus spots so it makes sense and it seems it would fill alot of the sanding marks and such.
Ive never met an alligator I didnt want to turn into a wallet and side of nuggets.

67 flatback

July 27, 2012, 07:34:31 PM
Reply #7

slvrlng

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Re: Quick sanding and order of operations question
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2012, 07:34:31 PM »
Quote from: "OldSkool67"
Quote from: "slvrlng"
If you have it that far why not go ahead and throw a single coat of resin over the whole thing to seal it. It would bond any short fibers and seal off any porosities, or do you have any of those issues? Then block it down, then fair and prime. So patch , fair, prime. Start with 80 to even it up, 36 is too much except where you need to remove a lot of material fast. Follow the directions on the primer to get the proper grit before priming for the best adhesion.

when you say throw a single coat on, do you mean just roll a coat of resing on it?

I do have exposed fibers and porus spots so it makes sense and it seems it would fill alot of the sanding marks and such.

Yes! it won't hurt and it gives all the rest of the repair a nice fresh base to grip to, whether that be fairing or primer. Doing this also seals any micro cracks you might not notice in the laminate.
Lewis
       1983 222 Osprey "Slipaway"
       1973 19-6 "Emily Lynn"
      

July 27, 2012, 07:46:31 PM
Reply #8

kraw2

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Re: Quick sanding and order of operations question
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2012, 07:46:31 PM »
Quote from: "slvrlng"
If you have it that far why not go ahead and throw a single coat of resin over the whole thing to seal it. It would bond any short fibers and seal off any porosities, or do you have any of those issues? Then block it down, then fair and prime. So patch , fair, prime. Start with 80 to even it up, 36 is too much except where you need to remove a lot of material fast. Follow the directions on the primer to get the proper grit before priming for the best adhesion.


That's the way to do it..! If you're using epoxy resin, which is the best, you can roll it on with a roller cover made for resins.

July 29, 2012, 01:20:40 PM
Reply #9

Group W Bench

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Re: Quick sanding and order of operations question
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2012, 01:20:40 PM »
Oldskool,

I would not recommend coating the whole boat in epoxy or poly resin, as that is simply creating another bout of sanding the entire hull and accomplishes little. Straight resin is not a good fairing or priming compound. Plus, sanding straight epoxy resin is a painful process. Please remember that you are adhering layers based on mechanical bonds created by sanding, not chemical bonds between wet laminates in succession.

There is a big difference between fair and smooth. You can have a smooth surface that will shine like a gold tooth when painted, but may have underlying dips/waves that are not fair at all. Concentrate on fairing first. Therefore, you will first make the spot repairs that have to be addressed and then longboard them fair w/ 80. Blue dye/tooling dye thinned 80-90% with denatured alcohol will certainly help you in identifying highs/lows. Wipe the area 2-3 ft beyond the repair first with the blue dye and longboard. The lows will stand out in blue. Then fill w/ fairing compound and repeat until fair.
 
Then shoot the whole boat w/ high build primer and wipe down w/ tooling dye when dry. Londboard w/ 220 and fill the lows. This will take care of the small waves that will be all over these older hulls. Once filled and longboarded, hit w/ another coat of primer, dye, and hit w/ 320. Now you are fair and smooth. Shoot w/ paint at this point.

You are welcome to swing by the shop this week to see some examples. We have one boat fully shot in primer ready for final sanding and painting. We also have a 4x4 ft repair on one of Pinellas County's 3 fireboats that we are finishing up. Seeing what the guys are doing on these 2 boats will give you a pretty good idea of the succession of steps to achieve both a fair and smooth hull prior to painting.

July 29, 2012, 03:26:05 PM
Reply #10

seabob4

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Re: Quick sanding and order of operations question
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2012, 03:26:05 PM »
Eugene, long boarding....damn, shudder just to think of it!


Corner of 520 and A1A...

July 29, 2012, 03:31:34 PM
Reply #11

gran398

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Re: Quick sanding and order of operations question
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2012, 03:31:34 PM »
:lol:

Great post Eugene :thumright:

Gentlemen, we are fortunate to have a professional boat builder in our membership.

Thanks :salut:

July 29, 2012, 05:40:10 PM
Reply #12

OldSkool67

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Re: Quick sanding and order of operations question
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2012, 05:40:10 PM »
Quote from: "Group W Bench"
Oldskool,

I would not recommend coating the whole boat in epoxy or poly resin, as that is simply creating another bout of sanding the entire hull and accomplishes little. Straight resin is not a good fairing or priming compound. Plus, sanding straight epoxy resin is a painful process. Please remember that you are adhering layers based on mechanical bonds created by sanding, not chemical bonds between wet laminates in succession.

There is a big difference between fair and smooth. You can have a smooth surface that will shine like a gold tooth when painted, but may have underlying dips/waves that are not fair at all. Concentrate on fairing first. Therefore, you will first make the spot repairs that have to be addressed and then longboard them fair w/ 80. Blue dye/tooling dye thinned 80-90% with denatured alcohol will certainly help you in identifying highs/lows. Wipe the area 2-3 ft beyond the repair first with the blue dye and longboard. The lows will stand out in blue. Then fill w/ fairing compound and repeat until fair.
 
Then shoot the whole boat w/ high build primer and wipe down w/ tooling dye when dry. Londboard w/ 220 and fill the lows. This will take care of the small waves that will be all over these older hulls. Once filled and longboarded, hit w/ another coat of primer, dye, and hit w/ 320. Now you are fair and smooth. Shoot w/ paint at this point.

You are welcome to swing by the shop this week to see some examples. We have one boat fully shot in primer ready for final sanding and painting. We also have a 4x4 ft repair on one of Pinellas County's 3 fireboats that we are finishing up. Seeing what the guys are doing on these 2 boats will give you a pretty good idea of the succession of steps to achieve both a fair and smooth hull prior to painting.


Thank you, I have already coated and resanded the hull. Most of it was sanded off but it did fill and coat some troubled areas.
I did dye the boat today and start the fairing process, I certainly could learn alot about the dying process thats for sure. It served its purpose and we made the first round of fairing. I will say I did learn very quickly to not keep your expoxy and fairing in a pot, get it thinned out or it will fire up, Fast!

Im going to start a resto thread to keep all my different updates in one place.

Thanks to all your help. It has all been a lot of help thus far.
Ive never met an alligator I didnt want to turn into a wallet and side of nuggets.

67 flatback

 


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