Shipoke 18

[gran398]

Great article, congrats Eugene!

http://www.floridasportsman.com/2012/05/18/shipoke-18/

[love2fish]

That wireless remote on the steering wheel is awesome!

[seabob4]

Well done Eugene!

[Group W Bench]

Thanks Scott. It's amazing how nice the reviews from magazine editors are when you cut them monthly checks for 1/2 page ad space. Just kidding, the Sportsman Editor, Sam Hudson, really wants one of our 18's. Hopefully, we can get him in one.

Check out our little 14 Microskiff. It is like running around in a go cart that floats in the morning dew.

http://www.microskiff.com/cgi-bin/yabb2 ... 1321817330

[Capt. Bob]

Eugene,
You have given me a golden opportunity to ask two questions.
With the batteries mounted forward, what percent voltage drop do you use when sizing the battery cable run?
How long is the run (one way) from the battery, through the battery switch and then to the motor?

Hell, while I got ya, any idea on how many amps the E-Tec draws while cranking?

Thanks in advance.

PS...  very nice job.

[Group W Bench]

We use 2 awg wire for the run from the bow compartment to the side console battery switch and from the switch to the engine. I have no idea what the voltage drop is nor cranking amps of the Etec. I can ask our rigger tomorrow as he probably would know the specifics.

[Capt. Bob]

I have no idea what the voltage drop is nor cranking amps of the Etec. I can ask our rigger tomorrow as he probably would know the specifics.

Thanks again, it's greatly appreciated.

[GoneFission]

Eugene,
Hell, while I got ya, any idea on how many amps the E-Tec draws while cranking?
PS...  very nice job.

E-Tecs don't pull that many amps, but do take more than the old JohnnyRude loopers due to the increase in compression.  Cranking amps is directly proportional to compression, unless you have a compression relief valve.  The specs call for a battery with at least 875 CCA.  

In fact, you can pull start an E-Tec 200.   The E-Tec is also the only high tech outboard that can be started with a dead battery or will continue to run with the battery disconnected.  This is due to that patented permanent magnet alternator the E-Tec uses.

[Capt. Bob]

Eugene,
Hell, while I got ya, any idea on how many amps the E-Tec draws while cranking?
PS...  very nice job.

E-Tecs don't pull that many amps, but do take more than the old JohnnyRude loopers due to the increase in compression.  Cranking amps is directly proportional to compression, unless you have a compression relief valve.  The specs call for a battery with at least 875 CCA.  

OK, can it be calculated knowing the compression ratio?

What I'm looking for is probably more geared to a measured current draw during actual cranking. Also, what is the industry standard for voltage drop? Is it 3%, 10% or somewhere in between? At what point does too great a drop start to affect the armature windings causing excessive heat buildup and eventual failure?

I'm curious as to what parameters did Eugene's staff use to size the battery cables? If I read the thread correctly, this battery relocation is a new improvement on the model and not SOP for years thus really no past experience to back up the old tried and true design method of "This is the we always did it". Not finding fault but rather trying to understand how a real boat manufacturer goes about making these decisions.

[Group W Bench]

Bob,

Here is the background on how the Shipoke rigging was changed. Before I acquired Shipoke, I had a 21 Maverick Master Angler. The boat was fine, but changing out any pumps, hoses, etc was an all day affair. The console looked like Medusa's bastard child, and this was a newer boat. Offshore raceboats routinely flip and rerig the entire boat in less than 24 hours. This is accomplished with access and redundancy in mind. I wanted to have Shipoke flats boats rigged and thought out like a race boat, as it seems that many of my flats boats looked like rigging was an afterthought.

I reached out to Andrew Ingle, who with his brother John spent decades as pro riggers for race teams. They have multiple national titles and world records under their belts for raceboats that they rigged. Though he and his brother are retired from rigging, he has a soft spot for Shipokes as he owns one. He wanted a new liner and stringer grid for his boat and I needed his experience. What we had was a good old fashioned horsetrade. He knew the boat well already, so he had many suggestions for updating the boat. It was Andrew who came up with the sealed battery compartment in the bow to offset the weights of modern 4 strokes, stick anchors, jack plates, and all the stuff we now hang from transoms.

If a guy with multiple national championships under his belt tells me to use 2 awg cable, we use it even though we have been told many times that it is overkill. The terminal block rigging makes changing out pumps a simple 5 minute process rather than an all day affair. The handbuilt LED backlit carbon panels with the sealed Cole Hersee switches are utilized on each boat b/c Andrew suggested that would be a great way to bring some modern bling to the boat while maintaining the dead simple reliability of the CH switches. We cut the Deutsche hood connectors off each set of brand new trim tabs and wire them to liquid neoprene coated 10 gang terminal blocks b/c it eliminates a common source of corrosion and failure in the trim tab system. Some of these processes may seem overkill for a flats boat, but it makes ongoing maintenance so much easier for owners.

Basically, I took what the clan Ingle and their raceboat rigging mafia told me as gospel and replicate it on each boat. It certainly helped that he had a lot of experience with the boat already and knew it's pros and cons in the old configuration. Like the old saying goes, you can stick your head up a bull's arse to see if it's a decent cut of meat or take the butcher's word for it. Given the pedigree, I decided to trust the butcher.

[RickK]

Nice explanation and having that pedigree on the team is always a plus  

[GoneFission]

Ok, here's the engineering stuff - it's not amp drop over wire length, it's voltage drop.  However, the amps must increase to make up for a loss in voltage.  It's the old V=IR equation; similar to Ohm's Law.  You need to lower the resistance by increasing wire size as current goes up, or voltage will drop and that causes higher current still.  Motors (starter, for example) will suck whatever current they need to turn - at lower voltage they need more amps to do the job.  Eventually the low voltage/high current situation kills the motor by overheating the windings.  Here's a couple pages out of one of my reference books that may help:

[Capt. Bob]

Thank you CJ.
As I asked in an earlier post in this thread, what voltage drop was used in calculating the wire size. From your text, it states that 2% is the holy grail. I've seen that and 3% also. Using the same formula and an internet voltage drop calculator I arrived at the same figures. 3% wasn't obtainable (2% just a dream) with what I had to work with so I settled for 4.5% realizing a .5 voltage drop over 20.5 feet (one way). Motor cranks much faster so I'm hoping the shortened run time of the starter helps reduce heat build up in the armature.

Interesting stuff.

[gran398]

CJ thanks, great reference (Hopefully your posted table will be archived)

Bob, 4% should be attainable.

Rick, having pedigree on the team is indeed a plus. And now an ongoing benefit for our membership.

Eugene...great post.

Good stuff guys

[GoneFission]

Bob - maybe you can borrow a tong tester and read the amps you are pulling on that line.  I would loan you mine, but it's a bit of a trip to come over and get it...  Many tong testers only can be used for AC amps, but there are a few that swing both ways...  

Craftsman actually has one for under $60:  http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... 3482369000