Recirculating Livewell Pump

[wessnapp]

Bob, how long is the tube for the oxygen supply/control?

Let me go out and measure...

6' Wes.  But if you need longer, you can buy the same stuff at HD...

Perfect - thanks Bob!

[gran398]

I gotcha now...you're looking to keep the bait alive while the boat is on the trailer and you're at Hooters having lunch

[wessnapp]

Resurrecting this thread for your opinion, thoughts, and collecting brain storming.

Dropped the boat back off to have the livewell recirculating pump put in the way I had requested:


The company did exactly as I requested and called me frantic with confusion.  While testing the recirc feature, they filled the livewell  (while in the parking lot) with water.  The recirc pump only pumps for about 1 minute when starting fresh and then bogs down and stops.  

Trouble Shooting:
1) They blew out the end of day drain to insure there was no blockage.  Water runs fine through the tube.
2) The supply/feed line going to the manifold obviously works as it has always been working.  
3) Ran the pump directly from a bucket being filled with a hose, no problem.  
4) There is a filter directly before the pump and is clean without clogs.  And again, it ran fine with the bucket/hose.

WHAT ON EARTH IS BOGGING IT DOWN?

[Capt. Bob]

I'll guess.
If I understand what is happening from your description, it sounds like the pump is working against a "closed valve" aka a dead head because......

The head pressure in the live well is too great for your pump to overcome. Diaphragm pumps (think wash down) draw water through the
intake side and force it through a lower pressure discharge side. When the pressure on the discharge side continues to increase, bad things could happen like line burst or pump failure. That's why they have a switch that shuts them down when a per-determined pressure is achieved,  

What type pump are you using? Centrifugal or diaphragm?

[wessnapp]

I'll guess.

The head pressure in the live well is too great for your pump to overcome.

What type pump are you using? Centrifugal or diaphragm?

The recirc pump is a centrifugal, 1100 gph aerating pump made by Rule


Not sure what you mean by head pressure.  Would you mind elaborating cause that is something I haven't heard yet.   (and your edit explained it - THANK YOU)

The feed hose leading from pump to livewell is 1&1/8".

[Capt. Bob]

Well I tried calling tech support to get a feel for the mounting and if this works like a typical bilge pump (I would guess yes).

As long as there is a water source at the vanes, I would think the pump would move (circulate) the water. Possibly the way it is plumbed, the water in the well is not getting back to the vanes fast enough and the pump shuts down. Most bilge pumps will run dry but maybe this model has some feature like that.  Since it's an 1100 gph maybe the drain can't supply it properly and that would cause the water flow to cycle from more to less. This type of pump should work fine at just flowing the water through the tank if the system allows it. Strange.

Is that what's happening?

[gran398]

A quick test would be to borrow a washdown pump and test the system vs. what you have now.

[Capt. Bob]

Since it adds air at the impeller, is that intake installed correctly? Maybe that is resulting in some problem but it's hard to visualize how.

Just guessing now.

[gran398]

Well I tried calling tech support to get a feel for the mounting and if this works like a typical bilge pump (I would guess yes).

As long as there is a water source at the vanes, I would think the pump would move (circulate) the water. Possibly the way it is plumbed, the water in the well is not getting back to the vanes fast enough and the pump shuts down. Most bilge pumps will run dry but maybe this model has some feature like that.  Since it's an 1100 gph maybe the drain can't supply it properly and that would cause the water flow to cycle from more to less. This type of pump should work fine at just flowing the water through the tank if the system allows it. Strange.

Is that what's happening?

Hey, agree, its weird that it bogs down. Shouldn't it run regardless, whether its getting water or not They run fine when they're sucking air, they just won't pump.

Maybe the pressure thing?

Hopefully one or more of our engineer members will chime in

[seabob4]

They run fine when they're sucking air, they just won't pump.

Maybe the pressure thing?

Hopefully one or more of our engineer members will chime in

We discussed that as well, Scott.  When I test a boat after installs, I am obviously not in the water, I pretty much just want to see if the pump runs, i.e. my circuit is good.  Could run the pump all day (they can be run dry), just won't be pumping anything.

Personally?  I think it's the pump...

[wessnapp]

Men, this is wicked strange.

When I got the call with their confusion/frustration, I quickly jumped in my truck and went over to see what the deal was.  Everyone who works in the installation department was standing by the boat scratching their heads.  Nobody could make heads or tails of it.  

I agreed to take the boat home today and test it over the weekend.  I am curious to see what happens when she is floating vs. being fed with a hose.  

For this one, I will be sure to take video so we are all on the same page.  Collective brainstorming is CAPITAL!

Capt Bob - what number did you call for tech support?  Would like to talk to them!

[gran398]

Personally?  I think it's the pump...[/quote]



Hook up a diaphragm. Those things will suck like a....those things will suck.

[Capt. Bob]

Capt Bob - what number did you call for tech support?  Would like to talk to them!

http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/rule/pr ... cement.htm

I used the # on the left but the other may be tech so.....

Choose either or,

Navigate to Customer Service then,

You'll need to ask for tech support.

Good luck.

PS.... I'll sip some of that kool-aid and join the "crappy pump crowd".
It should just plain work if....
We're understanding what's happening at the shop.

[wessnapp]

Thanks CB!


UPDATE: (naturally my phone died so I was unable to do video)

Mahoneys used T-Connectors, not Y-Connectors. Not sure if this makes a difference, but it just might.

The main 1100gph pump does fill the livewell as it should. However, now that there is a "T" in the feed line which connects aerator pump to end of day - there is a small upflow through end of day. We'll see how that affects the livewell with bait and debris. Might have to add a valve of some sort to stop the up flow.

The aerator pump when turned on, it stays on. When the livewell is full, the aerator pump does not start working until I open the seacock for the highspeed pick up and then close it. Only then does it work but with a weaker feed than the main 1100gph pump.

Aerator worked for a long time while at the ramp. But, between the ramp and my house on the trailer (shorter time than while at the ramp), it for some reason stopped pumping water, but continued to try to pump. It's sound was louder.

Question for Rule Tech support:
- Does the pump need to be in a certain position? It is on it's side with the air tube feed at the top.
- Does a 3/4 intake effect the performance of the pump? (take into account 99% of all intakes are 3/4")

Question for Plumbers:
- Does a T vs. a Y connector make a difference?

Question for me:
- Why did I initially embark on the livewell project with such a worthless group of _ _ _ holes?

[dburr]

Question for Plumbers:
- Does a T vs. a Y connector make a difference?

Yes…  T’s and 90's disrupt laminar water flow to the pump inlet.  In high velocity applications the abrupt change in direction of the water column will cause more turbulent flow that leads to a bunch of stuff and the next thing you know the pump starts to cavitate…

You’re using 1-1/8 hose?  The pump is 1100gph or 18.33gpm, (3 and 2/3 5 gal buckets for my simple mind) and that is a reasonable amount of water but not what I would think is high velocity for 1 1/8 hose.

The Yard boys blew out all lines.  You are already worried about thier chops   so we don't know with what and how much.  A shopvac at low pressure hi volume or air compressor at high pressure low volume??  It makes a big differance depending on the application and type obsturction/occlusion.  I have had good air exchange in fuel lines only to run a pig through them and find all manner and form of gop on the pig when it came out and in some cases the pig got stuck but the air always got through..


The Pump gets loud and doesn’t move much water after a small amount of time..  Getting loud means that it is getting loaded up, either by something blocking it, hence the reduced flow (and Wes cause you were not there to see what they did I don’t think you can safely assume that they didn’t miss something :( ) OR, the pump is sick and is getting hot and having issues with the motor bearings, which will make it louder and slow down, pump less etc..

If:
a. the pump was designed to run unsubmerged
b. is lower than the surface of the water it is going to move so it has positive head pressure
c. the suction line doesn’t have any old bait in it

Than I think it is the Pump, In the library with Miss Scarlet..
Col Mustard was smart and stayed in the Kitchen by the liquor cabinet ..

You have my condolences Wes, hope it gets resolved without too much more angst…