I have to ask...

[MarshMarlowe196]

Yamaha makes a great motor, but the fact is they have the best Marketing Campaign out there, open any fishing mag or watch a fishing show and it's flooded with Yamaha ads, I think that's why you see so many, they are the cool motor to have, I think the Marketing is the first and foremost reason all the boat builders use them, not reliability, who wants to buy a boat without the mighty Yamaha on it.

I feel that's exactly right.

When I went to buy a new motor for my Aquasport, Of course the first person I went to was my dad.  He's the first person I go to for anything boat related as he's been in the marine industry for a steady 42 years and counting.  He coordinates the sale of literally hundreds of boats rigged to dealer specs every month, and hands down the dealers almost always want Yamahas pre-rigged.  Why?  Because they sell.  

So, you'd think he'd recommend a Yamaha when I asked for a motor from him, right?  Nope.  He recommended Suzuki all the way.  Now, he's biased toward a 4 stroke motor and he has his reasons.  He gave me a very interesting comparison of available 4 strokes on the market, and he felt the Suzuki was the best outboard available, and he based this both on the superior design and reliability history.  He's been trying to push Suzuki's on his dealers, but they don't want them because they're harder to sell to the general public than a Yamaha.  I'm not going to try to convince anyone to convert to my Suzuki religion... I've been down that road plenty of times, but I will say he doesn't have nice things to say about an ETEC.  I could have gotten an ETEC for cheaper, and I wanted to go that route, but I was promptly talked out of owning one.  

He did however have good things to say about the Optimax, but he didn't like the idea of a compressor with a short lifespan.

If I was buying a 2 stroke outboard, I'd stay away from an ETEC.  Optimax would be my pick.

[Capt Matt]

Take it from a full time guide, the Yamaha competitive angling program sux, it only offers a 10% discount anymore unless you have a TV show, national exposure etc.  Also they only sell 4 strokes in the US market now.
95% of marina's are Mercury and/or Yamaha dealers and then generally carry another random brand. This gives you the most options for service, repair etc.
Capt Matt

[jaycal3]

Wow... you guys are all so passionate about boating - I love it!  Thanks for all the opinions.  I am taking every post into consideration before making such a big purchase.  Inevitably I think its going to come down to service by the Marina and who I trust.  If any of you Ct guys have ever had any dealings with Thayers in Norwich let me know... They have been very helpful and quite knowledgeable IMO about all this.

[Capt. Bill]

#1 E-tech basher here

All the Monday and Friday E-techs most have been sold out here on Pine Island, I'm yet to met a e-tech owner out here that likes there motor period.
Want to buy a motor from a company that also makes Snowmobiles and Jets or a company that just concentrates on making only one thing well then buy a Mercury.
No matter how good the service center and tech's are it still boils down to how the company warranties the product when there is a issue and all outboards will eventually have something break.

Top of the line boat companies either power with merc or yamaha for a reason, small boat companies use e-tech as they offer the best deal to the manafacturers.  
Google:  yellowfin, contender, boston whaler, grady white, Intrepid Sea V, or any top of the line production boat, do you see a single one with a e-tech?  Ever wonder why, simply put these companies care more about there customers than making a few extra dollars on a outboard.

I'm on my 5th brand new opti and have always ran them 1500hrs plus. I have never had a lower unit or powerhead blow up, thats a pretty good average. My business requires a motor that runs everyday, I live and die by my warranty and how quickly the motor is back in service when it does break.
5 people I know well that have owned brand new e-tech's all have had major problems and warranty issues that BRP won't cover. Either they have sold the motors or are currently trying to unload them.
You make the call,  you might get a mid week motor.
Capt Matt

Capt. Matt,

To trash a engine brand just because you don't like them is wrong.  If you don't like them don't by one. The guy was asking for honest opinions about motors not a rant about why you don't like them. For the record Mercury is owned by the Brunswick Corporation. A company who also makes pool tables, gym equipment, and bowling balls.  Hmmmmm....I think I'll take my chances with Jet Skis, snowmoblies, and air planes. Up here where my boat is it's the opposite, almost no one owns a merc., and the ones who do are trying to unload them.

jaycal,

I have an E-Tec, I also run charters and need my motor to run. My friends who run the local Sea Tow also run twin E-tecs, they need reliable power more than me and Capt. Matt.  However, the choice is yours. When I bought mine I researched all the manufactures. I chose the E-Tec because it had the best power to weight ratio on the market, offered the best warranty at the time, and the mechanic who used to service my old Johnson  stayed with them when BRP bought out OMC. My E-tec has been everything they claimed it would be. No maintenace, starts every time, quiet, and sips fuel. It does have a down side, it is a two stroke so you need oil, and BRP is less than responsive on warranty work.  IE The 2008 model year (my year) had a bad batch of fuel injectors delivered from the factory.  BRP didn't want to do a re-call because the E-tec is a fairly new motor and it was bad for publicity. They chose to change them as they went.  I lost one and had to have the boat hauled. They promptly change the bad injector but while she was out I wanted the other 5 changed and BRP refused, they said, and I quote " We're sorry, but there is no indication this injector came from the faulty ones that were installed in some of our engines. Your serial number indicates your engine was manufactured before the faulty injectors arrived at our factory."   To me that sounded like a crock, but the engine did run the rest of the season flawlessly.

Other than that I have no complaints and ofter recommend them.  Before you decide reseach all the manufacturers and by the one that offers you the best deal.

[Capt Matt]

Capt Bill, sorry to hear about your warranty issue on your e-tech, but it really seems like a common problem with BRP. The 300 e-tech I ran a few times a week for over 2 years has yet to make it more than 100 hrs without a injector going, same deal BRP would not replace them all in one shot and even the ones they did replace also went out. BRP not covering a lower unit that went while under warranty was simply what really gave me the bad taste. Running out of fuel on a charter while the 4th replacement digital gauge said the boat had over 50 gals in it was just plain embarrassing if not dangerous too,  The motor always starts and makes it home but what good is a warranty if BRP simply opt not to cover major issues?  I would like to see what percentage of e-tech owners would purchase another e-tech. Bill would you buy another one?
Capt Matt

[Capt. Bill]

I understand the bad taste, and I have a touch of the same, but I would absolutely - 100 percent - buy another.  I'm a 2 stroke fan and I think the E-Tec is the best one on the market.  I know why the injectors failed, you proably got the defective ones. But why did the lower unit fail?  Those are tried and true OMC units nothing BRP created.  Also, did they give you a reason for not covering it?  What did the fuel gauge have to do with the engine manufacturer?  They make it part of the control package?  I thought they were part of the boat's systems rather than the engines. My fuel gauge is wired directly to the float in the tank, and isn't part of the motor monitoring system.

[Capt Matt]

The gears in the lower unit went out, since there was some paint missing off the lower unit skeg BRP simply said you must have hit something which was not the case and refused to cover it, $4200 later The 250 and 300 have a larger lower unit which was redesigned.  A guide buddy of mine with a 250 is on his 3rd lower unit in 3 yrs

The factory  I-command  digital gauge is much like my mercury smartcraft gauge. Its a single gauge thats the tach, fuel gauge, temp, water pressure and voltage along with  GPH, trip fuel used, fuel remaining, range  etc,   It also lets you know when something goes wrong giving you a error code.  
Capt Matt

[Capt. Bill]

Interesting, I didn't know BRP re-designed the lower units on the bigger engines. Sorry about the lower, and that doesn't surprise me.  

You know, when I got the E-tec the mechanic, who I've always used, told me he was intalling a standard gauge. I thought it was because I already had most of the others. Mine is analog and only shows tach and alarm. Wonder if he knew there was trouble with the monitor.

[c master]

Jaycal -

You're correct...a lot of passionate people here.  The good news is that unlike some other sites, you'll find that nobody is "exaggerating" or playing games - they will give you their actual experiences, which in most cases is based on a LOT of years of running outboards, either personally or professionally.

1.  We have strong opinions, but we're also sort of pickin' the fly sh*t out of the pepper, because most of today's engines are pretty damn good, compared to say, 1982 models.  For example, they're all treated against corrosion, they're all pretty efficient, they're all heavily electronic, etc.   Point being:  Other than 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke, don't expect dramatic differences to be apparent.  

2.  All of these new outboards are extremely sophisticated machines (read: complicated).  IMHO, this is the result of federal regulations forcing the manufacturers to meet EPA requirements, just like cars.  Each manufacturer tries to constantly 're-engineer' a solution to the newest federal mandate.  Some get it right immediately, some take a few model years.  If it takes a few years, the brand gets a bad rep that is hard to overcome.  Point being:  Don't buy the first year of brand-new technology unless it comes with a hell of a warranty.

3.  Personally I've found that the worst thing for an outboard is "sitting up" for months.  No outboard does well sitting in storage.  I've let mine sit too long, and EVERY TIME I do that, something stops working right.  They need to run, like a guide's motor runs, all the time.   Point being:  If your engine sits more than it runs, you'll probably have some trouble.

4.  Guides typically won't buy something that prevents them from missing many days of income, whether it's reels or GPS or motors.  Point being: they're financially motivated to be 'objective' with their choices, so they're credible.  (But even guides can get a 'lemon', of any brand)
 
5.  Other than price, a "know-able" factor is dealer support where YOU live.  You gotta have some motivated dealers around who compete for your business and have techs who are trained on your brand.  Point being:  check your local dealer network and read their reviews from Better Business Bureau.

6. You might consider a young, used engine.  6 months after the big boat shows, there are lots of almost-new engines on the market because dealers will often underpower their boat show 'specials' to meet a price point.  The buyers then come back and upgrade.   Save 20% +.  Just a thought.

[Capt Matt]

If you want a Merc Bass pro is about the cheapest and always has some kind of deal going. Nobody sells as many as them guess its all about volume. My buddy just bought the same motor as mine a 175pro XS from Bass Pro for roughly $500 more than I paid on a silver level guide program. Amazed me!!!
Capt Matt

[fitz73222]

I've been staying out of this one for good reason. For 40 years, I've run everything from double line OMC's to fuel injected 260hp 2.5 Mercs and they all have an Achilles heal that can become evident over time. Some are bombs from first day they are launched and some last regardless of how bad they are treated. This can happen within the same brand. It's all about the engineering, quality over price point and being able to sustain product loyalty without bankrupting the company. The OMC story is a prime example. They were the biggest and best known brand for 70 years and brought to their knees in 5 short years do to engineering, quality and dumping millions to sustain brand loyalty; they just ran out of money and time in the middle of fierce competition; the perfect storm so to speak. What I'm really wary of these days is the "no touch" value proposition created by some of these OEM's. "We don't want you to touch your gearcase for 300 hours or XXX years" because we claim durability. So we get to be product test guinea pigs on our dime. Anybody ever seen 300 hour gearlube? I have; you can smell it 50 feet away when you crack the screw. So the gearcase made it through warranty but the damage is done and whats the life expectancy for the next 300 hours? Same is true on a 100,000 warranty on your new truck. Long life coolant, differential oil, spark plugs etc, etc. So at 125,000 what have you done to the vehicle by listening to the OEM? They could care less, it made it through warranty and hope you will be trading it for a new one because you didn't have to touch it. Any of you guys who make a living with an outboard plan on not touching it for 300 hours because the OEM said you could? My point here is nothing beats maintenance. I do it at 50% intervals and have the 20 year old engines that sing like the day I took them out of the box ( with 1000 hours on them). The average boater believes all this hype created by the OEM about durability and is willing to sacrifice a $4000 gearcase assembly to save on $100 worth of gearlube over its life. So who makes the best outboard? They all do. There is a camp for every brand and the stories to support it. I grew up in a GM family; guess what I drive? I went "black" in 1980, guess what outboard(s) I run? I could tell you stories....

[gran398]

What a terrific post Fitz. What makes the most sense is your point about "no maintenance" then the warranty expires and the "guinea pig" is left as the bag holder.

I can vouch for his engine collection. Walk in the cave, and your mouth drops open

[seabob4]

Maintenance and usage is the key to ANY motor and it's longevity, be it O/B, car engine, truck engine, whatever.  I am a NUT about changing oil or lube, ask my wife.  But to me, it's not only cheap insurance, but, since I do it myself, I get to poke around all those wonderful places that are normally out of sight, out of mind.  A good visual can often discover a "potential" problem before it becomes a REAL problem that might leave you stranded or, worse, cause major damage.

Take LUs, for example.  How many threads have we read where no matter what the OP does, that LU just won't drop (yeah, we know about the hidden bolt under Yammi trim tab anodes!), and the owner has to resort to wedges and several days of PB Blaster soaking before it finally lets go.  A good liberal coating of lithium grease on the shaft splines, as well as never-sieze on the bolts, she'll drop like a champ every time.

Just simple little chit, common sense.  But, there are lemons, right out of the box.  Several years ago, my buddy Tony had hung a OMC OceanPro/OceanRunner (can't remember which, same motor), 225, on a 225 Explorer that Todd Biddeson wanted to test.  Totally normal install, no kinking of the oil hose, we hung 1000s of these motors.  Put the boat in at 10th st., Todd fired it up, it idled for about 45 seconds...then started shaking violently...and siezed.  Brand frickin new, right out of the box.

Go figure...

[Capt Matt]

Your so right about preventive maintenance, it is really the key to long motor live. During my regular services the marina will sometimes spot something little that needs replaced before it does let go. I cannot imagine not changing lower unit lube after the first 20 hours then again every 100hrs on any motor. The oil change at 20hrs is really important as it gets rid of all the metal shavings as the gears really seat together.  Maintenance and regular services on my motor generally runs about $3000 plus a year. If you scrimp on maintenance your really rolling the dice
Capt Matt

[gran398]

And here's the good news Matt. You bought it there, it is serviced there. You are an important customer. And everyone there is aware of what you do for a living.

The plus for the dealership: You are an unofficial spokesperson for their motor, and their service.

It is in their best interest to take care of their professionals.  Feel sure and expect they do.