Sounder/Chartplotter Suggestions? Ughhh?

[Skoot]

The more I look, the more Im confused  I know you guys will be able to help, Should have just come here first.

Im looking for a Sound/Chartplotter Combo for around $400. My main uses will be in saltwater, in depths less than 150'.  I "think" I've narrowed it down to either a Garmin 421s https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=150&pID=28746 or a Humminbird 587ci HD http://store.humminbird.com/products/39 ... i_HD_Combo  Both are about the same price and have very similar features.  The Garmin comes with either a dual-beam or dual-frequency  transducer, which im thoroughly confused by

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, Thanks

[flounderpounder225]

Scott
Spend a little more and go with the garmin 541S the map detail and graphics are  awesome, and later the addition of the G2 vision SD card will amaze you with the google earth like real maps and detail.  Here is one from Anchor Express, good place, good customer svc.
http://www.anchorexpress.com/Garmin-GPS ... 762-01.htm

[seabob4]

Scott,
Dual frequency, 50khtz-200khtz. 50 for shallow (45 degree swath), 200 for deep (10 degree swath)...also called dual-beam...

When you start to get near serious drop-offs, say 50-75' dropping off to 150-300', split the screen with 50 on one side, 200 on the other.  You'll see the good clear demarcation on the 50 side, but as the ducer starts to pick up the bottom on the floor after the drop-off, the narrower beam spreads out farther and really sees the detail of the deeper floor...

And what Marc said.  Spend the extra bucks on a unit that you can really see at the helm...

And then we'll talk about side-scan imagery...

Another thing too.  The g2 Vision card, in Mariner's Eye View?  You gotta try it.  When you are entering your inlet from offshore, it looks exactly like it does from your eye.  But, it gives you all the depths side to side, and in the channel, that you can't see...totally cool!

[seabob4]

Alright, now that I've apologized to Scott calling him Jesse (damn where'd that come from?), let me explain about Scott's needs for 50/200.  Scott fishes here on the gulf coast, where one has to run 60 miles off to be in 80' of water, if your lucky.  But Scott's main fishing grounds are going to be in 30' or less.  So the 50khz will suit him just fine.  It's great for the unit to be dual beam, but our necessity for the 200khz is almost nil here unless you get way out there...and in Scott's boat?  Just ain't gonna happen...

One of the keys is resale.  Eventually Scott's going to want to sell the unit, when funds and the Admiral's go ahead are allowed.  A budget offshore guy who can get to the ledges wants the 200, and want's the larger color display as well.  So that Garmin 500 series can be a viable resale, help re-coup some of the money spent down the road...a good selling point to the Admiral...

Marc?  He has the depth, and the boat to get there, near at hand.  The Panhandle, the proximity to deeper waters, the rigs just to the south and west?  They need the deep penetration of a 200ktz.  Marc and his buddies spot deep water, spot YFs, BFs, White Marlin, Sails, deep water grouper, BIG Kings, a lot different from Scoot's waters...

But take his advice on the unit, and take my advice on the resale...

[wingtime]

Scott,  I have the 441S.  Nice combo unit. I wish I had the larger screen 541 but that is a big price jump.  I'm not sure but make sure the 421 is sonar capable.  Some of the units are not.  I have the dual beam transducer.  You can select what freq you want or run it on a split freq screen.  As Bob mentioned 50htz is all you really need for our shallow waters.  But unless you get one that comes with the ducer (most don't) you can buy the freq you want and with or without a speedo wheel.

[Circle Hooked]

No offense guy's but I think you have the khz back words, 200 is a wide beam for say up to 100 ft and the 50 a narrow beam which goes deep, the single beam is a 200 only which sounds like it would work for him

[Capt Matt]

Go with the garmin, I have used both hummingbird and garmin and really prefer the garmin, it just seems better built and is easy to use. I have a 541S and still wish I had a bigger screen. Its crazy how much the price jumps as the screen gets larger.
Capt Matt

[seabob4]

No offense guy's but I think you have the khz back words, 200 is a wide beam for say up to 100 ft and the 50 a narrow beam which goes deep, the single beam is a 200 only which sounds like it would work for him

From Lowrance's site:

Cone Angle
A transducer's cone angle determines its coverage area of the underwater world. The wider the cone angle, the greater the area that's covered. We offer a variety of 200 kHz transducers with either a wide (20°) or narrow (12°) cone angle. The 50 kHz transducers come with a 35° cone angle. The dual-frequency transducers come with both a narrow (12°) 200 kHz and a wide (35°) 50 kHz cone angles. And the dual-search transducers come with both a narrow (12°) 200 kHz and a wide (35°) 83 kHz cone angles

So my train of thought is that in shallow water, I want to see more of the bottom and am not really looking so much for penetration, so I'm going to go with 50khz to give me the wider cone.  Deep water, I need the penetration to get down there, and, keep in mind, as the beam travels further away, the area of the cone grows, showing a greater amount of water or bottom.

Just my take...

[slvrlng]

Skoot, here is one like I have. Mine is not in as good a shape as this one. It does have the 5 inch screen which I really like.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Garmin-498C-GPS ... 246wt_1270

[Capt. Bob]

No offense guy's but I think you have the khz back words, 200 is a wide beam for say up to 100 ft and the 50 a narrow beam which goes deep, the single beam is a 200 only which sounds like it would work for him

From Lowrance's site:

Cone Angle
A transducer's cone angle determines its coverage area of the underwater world. The wider the cone angle, the greater the area that's covered. We offer a variety of 200 kHz transducers with either a wide (20°) or narrow (12°) cone angle. The 50 kHz transducers come with a 35° cone angle. The dual-frequency transducers come with both a narrow (12°) 200 kHz and a wide (35°) 50 kHz cone angles. And the dual-search transducers come with both a narrow (12°) 200 kHz and a wide (35°) 83 kHz cone angles

So my train of thought is that in shallow water, I want to see more of the bottom and am not really looking so much for penetration, so I'm going to go with 50khz to give me the wider cone.  Deep water, I need the penetration to get down there, and, keep in mind, as the beam travels further away, the area of the cone grows, showing a greater amount of water or bottom.

Just my take...

The key here is that as frequency increases, penetration (depth) decreases. So with all things being equal the higher frequency transducer will loose performance with increases in depth while the lower frequency will have greater penetration (performance). Higher frequency results in more definition (detail). With that stated, a shallow water guy (like me) would want a transducer that provided the highest detail of the water column/bottom. That would equate to a higher frequency transducer, say the 200 rather than the 50.

As far as beam (cone angle) goes, smaller the angle, the better the bottom detail. That stated, a wider cone angle lets you see more of the water column and would be a good fish finder for those species residing in the column where the narrower cone would be better suited for actual depth sounding. Still, in the Gulf, it is often the bottom structure/composition that holds the fish so the smaller cone would be good for that. Therefore shallow Gulf, higher frequency for increased detail, narrow cone angle for better bottom recognition.

Just my approach.

One last item. The 50 comes with a wide 35 degree cone. This is great for the deep water angler for two reasons. First, the lower frequency has greater penetrating capability (assuming proper power ie wattage) thus providing the user with accurate depth readings while the wider cone angle allows identifying target fish that reside higher in the water column. A completely different type of fishing from what we do in the Gulf.

By now it's quite apparent that it's all just a compromise and you just need to find one that you feel comfortable with.

Good luck.

[Skoot]

Thanks guys for all the help/input.  I think Im going with the Garmin (more than likely the 400 series) and the Dual Beam transducer seem like it will suit my need just fine.  Hell, I would love a larger/more feature unit, but its just not an option at this point.  I mainly do a lot of flats/inshore site fishing, but every now and then like to venture to some hard bottom or ledges and just need something to pinpoint these areas.

The Garmin Dual Beam
80/200 kHz
400 Watts
Beam Width 80 kHz-45*, 200 kHz-15*

The Garmin Dual Frequency
50/200 kHz
500 Watts
Beam Width 50 kHz-40*, 200 kHz-10*

Thanks again!    

[wingtime]

Scott if you get the Garmin go to the Garmin website and buy the homeport software and download it.  It allows you to manage your way points and such on your computer.  Very handy to have.

[Capt. Bob]

The Garmin Dual Frequency
50/200 kHz
500 Watts
Beam Width 50 kHz-40*, 200 kHz-10*

Scott,
As a reference, I'm running the 50/200 on my Lowrance