1976 22-2, Beginning the rebuild...

[Necessary Evil]

I had hoped to keep it on the trailer throughout the rebuild. Other than being rather high, is this a big mistake?

[kedd]

Hi Evil,

I'm with Matt about the support.
If it were me I would remove the cap and do cross supports.
I think when you do the tramsom it will save a bunch of time.
I know it's more work but I think it will save time in the long run.

I think the trailer will work fine, but again I'm with Matt and plenty of support.
If it was a roller trailer I would not try it.
I used a couple of short popits in the bow when I did mine and it stopped all movement while I was in it.

Love the project!!

Kedd

[c master]

NE -
I have "launched" my 170 onto foam blocks in the backyard when I needed to do some trailer work.  Just tied the transom to a pecan tree and slowly pulled the trailer out from under it, setting the foam as I went.  Afterwards, just winched the trailer back under the boat.  That was very stable, but not much lower.  (My foam blocks were pretty big and my goal was different.)

To make yours lower, you might be able to leave it on the trailer, using scissor jacks to take the wheels off and lower it onto wood blocks under the axle(s).  This would take advantage of the trailer's inherent support through the re-build.  

You'll still want to be careful about holding the shape when the cap comes off, as the rebuild experts have suggested.

[Necessary Evil]

I've noticed that some of these rebuild threads start with a pic of the boat as the builder bought it, then sort of jumps to the "after demo" pic of a nice, clean scooped out hull. I guess in real life it does'nt work that way huh? After wearing out two saw/grinder wheels ( I found the correct wheel on the third try, naturally), I got my first peek under the deck. Seems to be a real mess, with random 2 x 4's and lumber bits jumbled in all over. Must have been a Monday morning build!

Looking aft on the starboard side:



Looking forward up starboard side:



Detail of 2x4's boards and bits under starboard deck between stringer and outer hull:



And what passes for a coffin box. Just a plywood box with tank surrounded by foam:



I had to quit for lack of a big enough pry bar. One thing they did not skimp on was glue!

[Capt Matt]

They are put together well
My demo took about 2 weeks working a few hours a day, then I had the inside sandblasted before starting to lay glass. The demo is the worst part, once you start putting it back together you will see progress
Feel good about it, yours is only 2 stringers my flatback was 5 and crazy amounts of wet foam everywhere
Capt Matt

[kedd]

I had to make 2 dump runs of wet smelly wood, glass and foam before I felt I could just sit back and see what I was in for.
Can't wait to see her all cleaned up.
Once all the major crap is gone and you can see bare bones, the possibilities will have you thinking of the next step every spare moment  

I wish I had gone the sandblasting route like Capt. Matt!!
That sounds sooooo much better than the grinder.


Kedd

[Capt Matt]

There was still plenty of grinding involved in the demo but the sand blasting saved lots and lots of work hours and got rid of stuff a grinder would have never got to. The 40 plus year old roven fiberglass mat looked brand new after being sandblasted anything that was loose got blown right off.
Capt Matt

[Necessary Evil]

Tiny bit of progress today. The plywood in the deck was totally rotten from about the front of the console to the stern. Forward of the console, she is built like a battleship. Deck is as dry and strong as the day she was sold!



Where I stand from Forward to aft:



I did a quick finger check of the foam running up the outside of both of the stringers; seems dry on the port side, but an inch wet on the starboard. Hoping the stringers are dry.

Now I am trulyl conflicted over whether or not to take out the forward casting platform. It seems very sturdy, no soft spots. It sure is tempting to leave it alone.

I'm also tempted to install a plastick tank. Whatever I do, I'll have to build a new coffin box.

I did go ahead and buy a new Suzuki DF175. Diamond in New Smyrna Beach had a great deal going, so I locked one in :)

Best to all,

Charlie

[Capt Matt]

Charlie
Congrats on the new motor.
Saving the front casting platform will save you a ton of time and money. I ripped mine out and rebuilt a much shorter one leaving me a lot more floor space. The original casting platform is really heavy and not really the best hatch set up either. I donated mine to a friend who will end up using it in another boat. If you end up replacing the stringers it might be hard to work around too.
So many choices when doing a rebuild
Capt Matt

[Necessary Evil]

Getting to the point where I need to order some materials, and I need to decide what is going where. I'm thinking of using Coosa's Bluewater 26 product for the bulkheads and deck. It is their top of the line structural board. So what do you think? 3/4" for the structural bulkheads and coffin, then 1/2" covered with 1708 on both sides for the deck? Or do I need to deck with 3/4" as well? If i deck with 3/4", do I need the extra layers of fiberglass?

I've also got to decide on a tank and I'm torn between aluminum and plastic. Aluminum is more expensive, but there are no permeation issues. I sure don't want fumes in the bilge! Plastic has no rust issues and there is a larger selection of sizes and shapes available in stock.

And then there is the transom! :) I'm really puzzled about what to do. Hollow out the guts with a chainsaw, then pour it? Cut out the inner skin and epoxy in a thick piece of Coosa cut to shape?

Also, it is getting chilly here in Birmingham. How warm will my shop need to be for glass/epoxy work? I'm going to have to tent the boat and heat it with electric portable heaters but I'm not sure how hot I can get it. It's either that or find a climate controlled work space but I hate the idea of moving.

I've got at least a week of demo left, but then I'll need to get a plan together. Any and all advice, opinion, 2 cents, or pure BS speculation welcome!

Happy Halloween to all,

Charlie

[Capt Matt]

Charlie
Save your money on the Bluewater 26 and buy just one sheet of it to use for the transom, I used one sheet of 11/2 inch bluewater 26 for my transom then used the scraps to build my transom knee's and a few other misc things. The 3/4 inch Bluewater 20 or even less density is perfect for bulkheads, floor etc. All the info I read up on coosa said you did not need to glass the back side of the floor sheets as it is impervious to H2O but I just felt better doing it anyway.
This coosa stuff is crazy strong, light weight and easy to work with you will love it . The only draw back I found is the high cost.

When building my floor I used 3/4 inch bluewater 20 with a layer of mat on the underside then a layer of 1708 topped with a layer of 1oz mat for the deck side. The mat covered the biaxle well and made for a whole lot less fareing and skimming. I used 1/2 inch bluewater 20 to build the transom cap and cabinet as I needed it to flex to get the curve of my transom cap. The 1/2inch would probably do everything you need but the 3/4 seemed much stronger. From a cost point of view if you stuck to building everything with 3/4 inch you could use your scraps for everything and would have very little waste. You could even stick two sheets of 3/4 together with biaxle for your transom. I stuck 2 sheets of 3/4 together to build my stringers and then used the 3/4 for all my bulkheads.

I think if your shop is warmer than 70 degrees you should have no problems. I laid a lot of my glass last winter on 60 degree days, as long as the sun was shinning it was not problem. Just play around with the mix of resin to MEK. You want it to go off slow.
Capt Matt

[Thermal]

Getting to the point where I need to order some materials, and I need to decide what is going where. I'm thinking of using Coosa's Bluewater 26 product for the bulkheads and deck. It is their top of the line structural board. So what do you think? 3/4" for the structural bulkheads and coffin, then 1/2" covered with 1708 on both sides for the deck? Or do I need to deck with 3/4" as well? If i deck with 3/4", do I need the extra layers of fiberglass?

I've also got to decide on a tank and I'm torn between aluminum and plastic. Aluminum is more expensive, but there are no permeation issues. I sure don't want fumes in the bilge! Plastic has no rust issues and there is a larger selection of sizes and shapes available in stock.

And then there is the transom! :) I'm really puzzled about what to do. Hollow out the guts with a chainsaw, then pour it? Cut out the inner skin and epoxy in a thick piece of Coosa cut to shape?

Also, it is getting chilly here in Birmingham. How warm will my shop need to be for glass/epoxy work? I'm going to have to tent the boat and heat it with electric portable heaters but I'm not sure how hot I can get it. It's either that or find a climate controlled work space but I hate the idea of moving.

I've got at least a week of demo left, but then I'll need to get a plan together. Any and all advice, opinion, 2 cents, or pure BS speculation welcome!

Happy Halloween to all,

Charlie

Charlie -

I'm working with a shop to restore a '74 22-2.  On decisions like transoms and fuel tanks, I'm learning as I go and taking their advice, asking questions on this site, and doing a lot of research online.  

I used divinycell for a transom. When I asked around, I got good feedback on divinycell, and the shop gave me a good price.  But I also got good feedback on other materials.  In short, seems like the different options work so long as it is done right.

On tanks, I ended up buying a plastic tank.  I could not find a large enough aluminum tank that would fit. It's shallow below the deck on a 22-2. I looked into a custom aluminum tank but the cost was too high. I got conflicting advice on the plastic v. aluminum.  I decided on plastic because for my boat it was more fuel at a lower price. Seems to me the smell issue might matter for a cuddy but is not an issue below the deck on a CC, if at all.

If you're interested, I can send a link to the tank I bought.

How many gallons is the tank in the boat?  Why not use it?

T

[gran398]

Charlie, Thermal, and guys,

There are a lot of plastic tank aficionados, for the reasons we've all discussed. No crevice corrosion, no install issues.

The rebuilder of my boat, Seamark Boats, uses poly tanks exclusively in their production boatshttp://www.seamarkboats.com/Models ... _2000.html . (Boys...BTW...ck the model 2000...an AS/Shamrock clone).

He suggested that we install a poly tank on the 22-2. They have been building closed-deck boats for over twenty years. Never had a tank issue with the poly.

The hardhead that I am, spec'd aluminum. Went with the status quo...but no claim that its better. May be worse. Time will tell.

With the install we're planning...fully expect it to go 40 years. I'll be 96 years young

[Necessary Evil]

Once again, I am truly grateful for all of your feedback! Thanks one and all!

So, now I'm drifting back to a plastic tank... so many more size/shape options in stock! Plus I am a slut for a few extra gallons. I'm obsessed with range... I have been thinking of my under deck storage options, and , at first, I was inclined to create some under deck storage. Now, I'm thinking two things, one, no under deck storage means no under deck voids for fumes to gather in, so a plastic tank seems more appropriate. Two, foam filled voids are added floatation, and I like that idea.

Still have a lot of demo to do. I'll have a better plan next week. I did speak to Scott at Porta Products about a bracket; he was a lot of help. I'm a little envious; what a fun way to make a living! He recommends a 21" offset bracket that offers 17 " of vertical lift. Still unsure about the swim platform option. Kind of expensive from Porta ($550), and may be an installation complication I do not need. Got to mock it up with various trim tab options and make a decision... Got to have tabs.

 I still need a transom decision. Pouring seems like such a good option to me. But I would have to preserve the inner FBG skin. Trouble is that the transom is critical....

Maybe Freddie Kruger will bring me the answer in my dreams tonight!

Best,

Charlie

[CaptSteveBetz]

Once again, I am truly grateful for all of your feedback! Thanks one and all!

So, now I'm drifting back to a plastic tank... so many more size/shape options in stock! Plus I am a slut for a few extra gallons. I'm obsessed with range... I have been thinking of my under deck storage options, and , at first, I was inclined to create some under deck storage. Now, I'm thinking two things, one, no under deck storage means no under deck voids for fumes to gather in, so a plastic tank seems more appropriate. Two, foam filled voids are added floatation, and I like that idea.

Still have a lot of demo to do. I'll have a better plan next week. I did speak to Scott at Porta Products about a bracket; he was a lot of help. I'm a little envious; what a fun way to make a living! He recommends a 21" offset bracket that offers 17 " of vertical lift. Still unsure about the swim platform option. Kind of expensive from Porta ($550), and may be an installation complication I do not need. Got to mock it up with various trim tab options and make a decision... Got to have tabs.

 I still need a transom decision. Pouring seems like such a good option to me. But I would have to preserve the inner FBG skin. Trouble is that the transom is critical....

Maybe Freddie Kruger will bring me the answer in my dreams tonight!

Best,

Charlie

I have a 24 PL Flatback. Basically the same transom you have on your 222.  

I have the platforms on my Porta Bracket. It was no problem installing trim tabs. You will just have to take the necessary measurements and supply them to Scott so they can build your bracket correctly to accommodate the Tabs.

Installation is no problem. Its four more bolts thats all.
I factored in the cost of fiberglass platforms and mounting hardware and came to the conclusion that for not that much more I could have the built on platforms that I did not have to worry about cracking or damaging and it looks way cooler.

As far as pouring the transom you do not have to save the inner skin. You just lay up a new skin on a piece of formicad ply wood and then glass it in 1 1/2 " forward of the outer skin.
If you have any questions about the porta bracket with swim platforms or how to lay up the skin and installation I would be more than happy to share my info by phone with you.
Give me a call if you like.  813-727-8843

BTW I did several transom demos and pours when I was helping out at one of the local shops here.