Project - Aquasport 246CCP, 1979, Captain Koz II

[Callyb]

As another tid bit of information, so far I have averaged about a gallon of vinylester resin for 10 feet (x50 inches) of biaxial. If this ratio continues I will need almost 15 gallons in total to finish the boat. I will tweak my numbers as I go. Does this sound about right?

Pretty close. 10 feet of 1708 (50 inches wide) should be right at 116.6 ounces or 10.4 pounds of material. So, a gallon of resin being (roughly) 10 lbs puts you right were you want to be... A ratio of 1:1 glass and resin. 15 gallons sounds about right also... I'm planning on close to 30 gallons, but I need to build stringers, which is where the extra comes from in my case.

Also, my preferred method is to use a scale and weigh the cloth, then mix the same weight of resin on the scale and work it in to the cloth without any left overs. Takes the guess work out of the process.

Looking good, btw!

[RickK]

That's good stuff Koz.  I have 3 gallon kits of 2# sitting in the shop waiting to be used.  Still finalizing everything before I foam the stringers but I'm close also.
Thanks for posting the process and the tips.

[kaptainkoz]

Your welcome Rick, im happy to contribute as I have gained a huge amount of knowledge and confidence from this site.

Cally,
Thanks for the confirmation. And I thought my kids were consuming and expensive and full of additional costs... lol.  Amateur realizations as this is my first major go around. At $243 for 5 gals of Vinyl ester resin im looking at another $500. No problem as I am in urgency to finish the boat. When its done its done. Also it will keep the resin fresh as I will buy more as I need it and not have it sitting around all winter.

As for your calculations, from my limited experience I would advise you to go a little heavier on that math because you will always have a little bit of waste in the form of runs and drips etc. I would have loved to work neater but time is not on your side with a hot pot of resin so it can get a little sloppy. I am cautious against using less catalyst than reccommended (10 cc per qt) as I have read that it could affect the bonding reacation if there isnt enough catalyst. With that in mind, I have stayed with mostly a quart mixed at a time. I went a quart and a half once and it gelled on me before I could finish resulting in about 1 cup of wasted resin. So regardless of the amount of glass you want to lay at one time, I would limit the amount of resin to what you can work with without it gelling. Of course temperature plays a roll in gel time, as well as material. Im using vinylester which im not sure if polyester or epoxy have different set times. I think you can get different catalysts for epoxy to slow or speed set time but im not using epoxy as I want to use gel coat.
 in any case, that seems like a great way to gauge how much you need so at least you know what quantities you are looking at for the project of the moment. I would love to know in adavance about how much I will need to use. Im going to try that method. Thanks!!!
 Disclaimer... of course if you are a pro and have done this many times i mean no disrespect. I am not going to say I know it all as I am new to this, but I am happy to share my experiences with hopes that it may save someone some time, money and effort.

[Callyb]

I'm glad I could offer some kind of help, and no, I am not a pro, but I do have a background with composites and boat repair. One thing that can help with the kick time (poly, vinyl, and epoxy) is to chill the resin before you mix it. Another is to get it spread out as fast a possible. Another thing to do, even though I prefer to work with epoxy (which is more forgiving with the cure times) but it helps with poly/vinyl resins too. It is to lay out your fabric on plastic sheeting and wet it out there as opposed to on the part. Just use a squeegee to spread the resin out flow into the fabric. You will be surprised how much more time you get by getting that resin thin and not allowing so much heat to build. I have some more to do today, so I will try to post a video if it will help. Actually, I think I have some poly in the garage too, if it is still good I'll do it with that also.

[CLM65]

I second Carl's chilling suggestion to give you more working time.  If I have a large area to do, I will set several quart-size quantities of resin (poly in my case) on ice in an igloo cooler.  Then I will add MEK as I remove each tub.  Seems to give me a bit more working time.

Question on the foam - after you mix the two parts and pour them in the stringer, I imagine there is still some residue in the bucket, which I would think also expands.  Do you have to scrape the bucket after each pour?  And your mixing stick too?

[RickK]

I was advised to plan on 2oz of resin per sq ft of 1708 and it's worked out pretty close.  If you're glassing porous stuff, like old glass or wood, add 25% more.
Craig, I bought throw-away paper buckets for the mixing of foam.  Stuff is tough.
Koz, I was mistaken - I have 2 kits of foam in the garage - hopefully will be enough.

[kaptainkoz]

Thanks again Carl for the great tips. I did put ice in the bottom of one bucket and put my working bucket inside of it. It seemed to help a little. Thats also great advice to wet a part out on plastic sheeting. That could work great on smaller pieces. Its not like the working time has been too short. For the most part has been enough time especially with less than 1/2 gallon batches. The biaxial wets out super nice. When I switch to doing alot of chopped strand then I will have to chill it as it does not wet out as nice as biax. When it comes time to lay an almost 20 foot strip of biax then chopped strand for the floor top coat then I will ice the hell out of it to make sure I have enough time. Thats going to be the fun one. Everything else I should have enough time. Awesome advice thank you!

CLM, as for the foam. Its had to put timing on it, but yes, it would expand in the bucket. I was able to get about 3 quick quart mixes in the mix bucket (actually 2 quarts, a quart of a and b) before it was too crudded up to go forward. Then, after about 4-10 minutes, it would stop expanding, be soft and pliable, and more of a soft foam than a liquid, and it would then peel cleanly off the mixer and the bucket. If you wait a little longer the same would happen where it was soft enough to come off of all the plastic. If you try too soon it will smear and stick really good. If you wait an hour plus, or however long it takes to fully harden you may have to throw everything out. You can "roll" the plastic bucket and get the foam to release. Its amazing how incredibly sticky this crap is but it will flake clean off of plastic. You have to experiment with it and get the feel for when it will come off your tools clean. By the time you figure it out you will be finished! lol

Rick, i dont know about 2 gallon kits, im upto 3 1/2 and I just found out I have a bit more to do (see below)

[kaptainkoz]

So today I started to tackle the mid boat bulkhead support that I want to add. I took a long look at how to make the piece and this is what I came up with to make the pattern. I drew a line where I want the support. I waxed the area a few coats with release wax. Then I took 6 inch wide piece of 1.5 oz chopped strand and wet it out. I laid it where I wanted it and worked a pinched ridge in the middle as a support. The plan is to let it harden, pop it off in a day or two and hopefully have a perfectly traceable profile that I can transfer to a piece of plywood for a perfect fit. I am further hopeful that I can use the same cutout for both sides. Hopefully I can get it off without destroying the  pattern.


In addition. I made a cool discovery today as far as checking to see how well the foam spread. If you hold a light against the opposite side of the stringer it will shine through where there is no foam. Hopefully it will be all dark for you, but I have 2 spots that will need a small "drill and fill".

[Callyb]

If you hold a light against the opposite side of the stringer it will shine through where there is no foam.

That is good stuff right there. Thank you for that tip :!:    

[kaptainkoz]

It worked PERFECTLY! I pretty much popped right out with just a spot or two needing a little help. More importantly this should raise the awareness to all as to how important it is to prep your surfaces. Who knows whats on your surfaces and as incredibly sticky resin is it was no match at all to the wax, and im sure grease, oil, etc. So anyway, here is the "pattern" as it came out of the hull:



I transfered it to plywood and cut the first one, then I dry fit it, made notes as to tweaks, and transferred those tweaks to the 2nd layer. I decided to go with 2 layers of 3/4 ply as it seemed like alot to ask from one layer. I made a half round cutout at the bottom for a piece of PVC to act as a gutter drain to let any water pass should any get in there.




I then tried the pattern on the starboard side and it fit a bit tight. So i transferred it to cardboard which was a little easier to tweak to shape. I was able to fit the starboard side without having to glass another pattern



I then dry fit the finished bulkhead blanks and screwed them together where they fit best. I then ran a rounding router edge bit over the edges that are not touching anything so I can wrap glass around it easier.




Tomorrow I will drill 2 alignment holes, un screw them from each other, glass a piece of 1.5 oz chopped strand between them, screw them back together, and resin the remaining surfaces and edges and let it set for a day. Then I wil install them completely encapsulating them and glassing them to the hull with biaxial.

[gran398]

Sweet work Koz

[dburr]

Great way to pull a pattern!! beats the tar out of a spiling batten.. Before you glass the frame in is the hull side fair?  

[kaptainkoz]

Thank you Gran!

Dburr, not really sure what you mean by "is the hull side fair". If you can clarify or rephrase the question I would be happy to answer it.

[kaptainkoz]

Fairly productive day, in fact more so than I thought it would be based on the possible complexity of getting these bulkheads in.

I took the 2 halves, glassed 1.5 oz chpped strand between them and screwed them together. I let them set up for a few hours. Then I mixed West systems 404 powder into some resin and made a paste. 404 is like cabosil except is is much harder, stronger and tougher to sand. It is a good structural filler and not a good fairing compound because it is tough to sand. I basically spread it over a marked line and set the bulkead into it and cleaned up the edges. It looks messy and it is a bit as the pictures do not do justice to how odd of a space this was to work in. It will glass just fine. I also think it was a wise move and worth the effort. The play and movement that the gunnels have was very obvious when I had the bulkheads dry fit in place and I tried to move the gunwale in and out. There was movment enough to justify my actions.








So it wouldnt go to waste, I used the remaining mixture to fair out the tops of the stringers a bit.



Then I glassed both the port and starboard lower halves. Tomorrow I will glass the upper halves.

[kaptainkoz]

Here is a phot I promised about something I mentioned earlier when I was pouring foam.  These foam dribbles actually bled through the fiberglass. They are not spills.