Fletch's 1976 170 Rebuild

[Fletch170]

I'm going to take a look this weekend. I will likely try to run a wire following the fuel lines back to the console. We'll see. I can't believe I forgot this......

Honestly, I was working at a feverish pace last year trying to get this thing done for the fall striper run.....didn't happen, obviously.

I'm excited though, for the first time this weekend (god willing) she will have the batteries on board and the electronics turned on.......a big moment. I'm hoping I wont run into any gremlins.

Wish me luck!!!!!!!

[dburr]

   

[johnnyred_1999]

Fletch,

Good Luck!!!

[Fletch170]

Holy crap. Where to Start. Looks like she's going to put up a fight. The good news is that all the lights work, the engine turns over, and the fuel tank sender seems to be working. Here is a detailed list of things that are not working, or not working correctly.

1. The stereo does not turn on, tried wiring it directly to the battery, checked the inline fuse....no dice, I think It's just a piece of crap.

2. VHF only works when wired directly to a battery. I tried both the VHF and Stereo using another switch, on the panel (swaping out the hot lead), same result. I tried swapping out the inline fuse....same result. Everything is grounded to a common bus, which is wired directly to the negative terminal of battery #1. Bad ground??

3. The bilge pump runs when turned to auto, and off when turned to manual. I think I have them wired bass ackwards. I hope this is a simple fix.

4. The trim to the motor isn't working, won't go up, wont go down. The trim motor is running, but nothing is happening. I can't get the release screw open (the screw on the port side that allows you to lower the motor manually). The motor was left 3/4 of the way tilted up all winter......did I screw it up?

5. There is no oil in the tank, but to alarm sounds when the ignition is on. Also the manual switch on the motor goes not turn on the oil pump to fill the Reservoir.

PICS FROM THIS WEEKEND!!!

http://fletch170.blogspot.com/

Guys, any help would

[Fletch170]

BUMP! HELP!

[Georgie]

Fletch,

I'm by no means a guru like John or Bob, but here's some info for starters.

I looked back through your photos, especially 9/20/12 and 10/1/12, and your use of buses and connective strips really has me confused.  Perhaps its just simply having hot leads and black wires intermixed in the same leg of your circuit, but it looks like you added a REALLY busy and unnecessary intermediate leg to both your positive and negative circuits (all the short looped black wires on the right connecting to what looks like a buch of hot leads on the left)  Typically, and in simplest conceptual terms ALL your negative wires from your various accessories should meet at a single busbar like the brass one in your photos.  Frome there, ONE primary heavier gauge wire runs straight to the negative battery post. The extra connective bar you added looks to really complicate the circuit.  Same thing with your positive/hot side except you can use one of your connective strips just like a mounted harness plug where all the hot wires going to your switches are screwed in at one side, and all the corresponding wires that run to all your accessories are connected at the opposite side.  Do you have a fuse bock in there somewhere?  Since your wires are all new, I'm going to assume each wire segment still has continuity for now.  

That said, here goes nuthin:

1. The stereo does not turn on, tried wiring it directly to the battery, checked the inline fuse....no dice, I think It's just a piece of crap.

If you wired it directly and used adequate gauge wire and with no blown inline or stock fuses that you couldn't fine, then yes, she's probably toast.  but to be certain I'd try bypassing the inline fuse. :(

2. VHF only works when wired directly to a battery. I tried both the VHF and Stereo using another switch, on the panel (swaping out the hot lead), same result. I tried swapping out the inline fuse....same result. Everything is grounded to a common bus, which is wired directly to the negative terminal of battery #1. Bad ground??

Similar to #1, make sure to trace the circuit from start to finish and verify any fuses.  Your positive circuit could be the culprit if you are 100% you have solid ground.  Your primary positive battery cables should first go to your on/off battery switch, and then ideally from there to a fuse block which will provide the common power source for most of your accessories.  From there, each single circuit should run independently to the assigned toggle switch, and then directly to the accessory, before leaving the accessory via black/negative/ground half of the circuit.  This is probably best solved with a continuity test.  Do you have a capable meter and know how to conduct the test?  

3. The bilge pump runs when turned to auto, and off when turned to manual. I think I have them wired bass ackwards. I hope this is a simple fix.

Sounds like you have this one pegged already. Swap terminals and see what happens.  If the toggle switch then works properly, follow up with your auto/float switch in the bilge to make sure it also works properly when the toggle is set to "auto".

4. The trim to the motor isn't working, won't go up, wont go down. The trim motor is running, but nothing is happening. I can't get the release screw open (the screw on the port side that allows you to lower the motor manually). The motor was left 3/4 of the way tilted up all winter......did I screw it up?

If it worked before sitting, and if you hear the motor running, then it may either somehow have developed a stuck valve, or perhaps be low on fluid.  You'll probably have to find a way to get the release screw open to sort this out.  Once the relief valve is opened, then you can raise the engine, engage the stop bracket, and check/fill the fluid.  In the future I would not ever leave a tilted engine at the 1/2 or 3/4 mark without bracing it.  That's a lot of pressure to put on the valves and gaskets over an extended period of time.  Either lower or raise all the way in the future.

5. There is no oil in the tank, but to alarm sounds when the ignition is on. Also the manual switch on the motor goes not turn on the oil pump to fill the Reservoir.

I'm not a yammi guy, but diagnostics for this one will also likely involve some tests.  Gotta make sure the pump and switch have power when ign is on, and that the low oil sensor is working (you need to short or ground the sensor to whatever ground/neg contact is inside the oil tank.  If the alarm doesn't go off then you're back to checking continuity along the entire length to find where the current gets lost.  Also, make sure your horn itself is wired properly.  Hot lead should probably come directly from the ign switch (purple wires I think??) and then from the other side of the horn the primary alarm wire heads back to the engine.  You may also have a third wire which is probably a ground? Sorry if this doesn't help much, but I'd need to see/play with it myself to narrow things down more.

Good Luck!!   Post some more photos of your under-console wiring if you can.  we can perhaps help you trace certain color wires to different connections and see if there is an obvious issue.

[Capt. Bob]

Might help with the oil alarm/pump/tank problem

LUBRICANT TRANSFER

All decisions about transferring oil (as well as sounding any alarms) are made by the electronic oil-control unit. On V-4 and older V-6 outboards, it consists of an external black box with a momentary toggle switch. In later V-6 models, Yamaha incorporated the switch and electronics into the CDI unit.

Located in the boat, the remote tank holds oil that is pumped to the powerhead as the engine demands. Mounted in a recess on the side of the tank, the electric oil pump receives the lubricant through a filter element and transfers it to the main tank, which is located on the powerhead. A float activates a switch (SW B) inside the reservoir when approximately 1-1/2 quarts remain. The switch signals the oil-controller to turn on the yellow warning LCD on the tachometer, and to stop the transfer of oil to the outboards main tank.
Inside the main tank, three float-activated switches inform the control unit when the tank is full, when to transfer more oil, and when to sound the alarm if the level drops too low.

As long as the remote tank contains enough oil, a green LCD lights up on the tachometer and the electric pump will transfer oil to the engine as needed. In the main tank, as oil is consumed and the level drops, a float triggers the middle switch (SW 2), which informs the control unit to turn on the electric transfer pump. The additional oil allows the float to rise up and initiate the upper switch (SW 1) to shut off the pump. In the event no lubricant is transferred and the oil level decreases enough for the float to pass the bottom switch (SW 3), the oil-control unit sounds a warning alarm, the red "no oil" LCD lights up, and the outboard slows to around 2000 rpm for its protection. This warning alerts the skipper that only one-third of a quart remains in the main tank.

MANUAL OVERRIDE

As long as theres sufficient oil in the remote tank, it can be manually transferred to the main reservoir by pressing the momentary switch to bypass the oil-control unit. The toggle switch turns the pump on for as long as it is held in position; the upper float switch (SW 1) will not turn it off. This allows you to refill the main tank and continue with normal engine operation as long as the float remains above the lower switch (SW 3).

When additional oil is added to the boats remote tank, the float rises above SW B, which allows the controller to turn off the yellow warning LCD. If the outboard is running, the electric pump begins to transfer oil to the engine until the main tanks full switch (SW 1) shuts it off.
Depending on your outboards model year, various methods are used to prevent oil from transferring when the outboard is tilted up. On models with a separate oil-control module, an internal mercury switch will not allow the electric pump to energize if the outboard is tilted above 30 degrees. The trim sender senses the tilt angle to prevent the oil transfer on V-6s from 1990 through 1995. Starting in 1996, new electronics in the controller unit keep the pump from operating if the engine is not running. Do not forget to check these items when troubleshooting a "no oil transfer" situation.

SYMPTOMS TO WATCH FOR

Common symptoms of trouble include a lack of oil transfer, overfilling of the main tank, and oil leaks while the outboard is tilted. Most of the time, these problems are due to operator error and are not the components fault.

Non-transfer of oil to the engine-mounted main tank can be as simple a problem as a neglected filter. Moisture gets into the remote tank from spray, rain, condensation, or from being located in the bilge where it can be splashed or submerged. The water forms a sticky emulsion in the bottom of the tank and plugs up the fine screen in the filter element.

An overflowing main tank sometimes results from someone twisting or incorrectly installing the rubber cap on the float assembly and screen element. The tubular screen has an offset nipple that fits into the bottom oil-outlet going to the metering pump, and can bind the float if moved out of place. The arrow marks on the cap and tank should be aligned.

Leaving the key on by mistake can also cause overflow problems. As the battery run drops below 9.5 volts, the oil-controller electronics go off line, and a ground path is formed which starts the electric pump turning very slowly. Eventually, the main oil tank overfills and spews excess oil out a vent tube into the air silencer box.

While the outboard is tilted, a leaking rubber cap on the main tank can result from improper assembly or from twisting out of place. A plastic tie-wrap snugged around the rubber lip usually cures the leak. The clear sight tube on the bottom of the tank can become brittle with age, and oil may seep between it and the nipple. Replace the tube if it feels stiff, and secure it with a tie-wrap.

TROUBLESHOOTING TIPS

Since the electric oil pump and each switch have voltage going to them at all times, troubleshooting is fairly simple. The electric pump turns on when the ground circuit is complete, and each switch (when activated) completes a circuit. The oil-controller cannot be tested, though and can be considered faulty only through a process of elimination.

When no oil transfer occurs, lift the toggle bypass switch to see if the pump runs and starts to fill the main tank. If it does, either the tank's float assembly is inoperative or the oil-controller is faulty. To check the float assembly, disconnect its wiring plug and ground out the brown (on early engines) or the blue-green wire on the wiring harness side. If the pump and wiring are in good condition, the pump should stay on. Grounding the white (on early engines) or blue-white wire will turn the pump off.

In cases where the pump does not operate or runs without delivering oil, remove the boats remote tank and inspect for corrosion, bad wiring or a plugged filter. You can test the pump by using jumper wires to put 12 volts directly to it. The brown wire is positive and the blue is negative.
Overflowing can result from several factors. If the pump continues to run and the oil level rises above the upper line on the tank, disconnect the wiring and ground out the white (on early engines) or blue-white wire. The pump will stop unless the oil-controller module is bad or there is a grounded blue wire in the harness somewhere between the pump and controller.

TESTING THE FLOAT SWITCH

An ohmmeter can be used to check the switches inside the main tanks float assembly. Carefully remove the unit, making sure the black foam sealing washer stays with the tubular filter element. If it remains in the tank, the seal can be forced into the feed hose going to the engine-driven metering pump which could block the flow of oil.
Hook up the negative lead to the black ground wire, and the positive lead to each other wire in turn. When you move the float, the ohmmeter should show that each switch "closes" when the float passes by. If any switches are defective, the assembly must be replaced. Be sure to install a new foam sealing washer every time the assembly is reinstalled.

Follow the service manual procedure when testing the remote tank's float switch. It is normally closed, and opens when activated by the float. Early models have electronics inside the assembly and require different test methods than later models containing the circuitry in the oil-controller.

Good luck.

[dburr]

Capt. Bob, outstanding TS guide!! Easier to understand than what my shop manual has..    

[Fletch170]

Capt Bob,

Thank you for the advice on the pump, I will do some trouble shooting with the information you sent over. Awesome.

Georgie,

The wiring, where you are confused (as any sane person would be) is where I connected the runs to LED's for both navigation and house lights. Being that I only had a few switches to work with, All navigation lights are one one, All fish box lights are one one, and the rod holder LED's are on another. So, at some point I needed to combine the wiring before running to the switch. From there, the negative runs to the bus block. All of those (Surprisingly) work fine. As does the GPS/ depthfinder.

Here are some responses in regards to what you sent me:

1.If you wired it directly and used adequate gauge wire and with no blown inline or stock fuses that you couldn't fine, then yes, she's probably toast. but to be certain I'd try bypassing the inline fuse. :(

-Yep, tried it with a fuse, no fuse, direct to battery....Basically any way I can slice it.

2. Similar to #1, make sure to trace the circuit from start to finish and verify any fuses. Your positive circuit could be the culprit if you are 100% you have solid ground. Your primary positive battery cables should first go to your on/off battery switch, and then ideally from there to a fuse block which will provide the common power source for most of your accessories. From there, each single circuit should run independently to the assigned toggle switch, and then directly to the accessory, before leaving the accessory via black/negative/ground half of the circuit. This is probably best solved with a continuity test. Do you have a capable meter and know how to conduct the test?

-Everything is wired as you mentioned. As you suggested, I believe I have a bad ground. I verified power to the VHF switch by using that switch to power the horn. It works.

3. Sounds like you have this one pegged already. Swap terminals and see what happens. If the toggle switch then works properly, follow up with your auto/float switch in the bilge to make sure it also works properly when the toggle is set to "auto".

Yea, I think the "Brown and white" wire from the pump goes to the "Manual" selector, and the brown to the "Auto", despite some of the diagrams I've seen on the internet.

4. If it worked before sitting, and if you hear the motor running, then it may either somehow have developed a stuck valve, or perhaps be low on fluid. You'll probably have to find a way to get the release screw open to sort this out. Once the relief valve is opened, then you can raise the engine, engage the stop bracket, and check/fill the fluid. In the future I would not ever leave a tilted engine at the 1/2 or 3/4 mark without bracing it. That's a lot of pressure to put on the valves and gaskets over an extended period of time. Either lower or raise all the way in the future.

Good advice, and I knew better to leave it as I did. I found some information, it really sounds like I need fluid, and as you mentioned, I need to get that screw loosened to get the motor all the way up. Let's hope some liquid wrench and a beefy screwdriver does the trick!!! Let's hope it's just low fluid, as the other reasons for the thing not working get expensive very quickly.


5. I'm not a yammi guy, but diagnostics for this one will also likely involve some tests. Gotta make sure the pump and switch have power when ign is on, and that the low oil sensor is working (you need to short or ground the sensor to whatever ground/neg contact is inside the oil tank. If the alarm doesn't go off then you're back to checking continuity along the entire length to find where the current gets lost. Also, make sure your horn itself is wired properly. Hot lead should probably come directly from the ign switch (purple wires I think??) and then from the other side of the horn the primary alarm wire heads back to the engine. You may also have a third wire which is probably a ground? Sorry if this doesn't help much, but I'd need to see/play with it myself to narrow things down more.

-Great Insight on this as well. I will check all of these things this week. When I sold boats (years ago), I would fill the main tank, then turn the ignition on. I would then toggle the switch on the motor to fill the small tank on the motor before starting.

Thanks so much guys! Any other pointers would be appreciated.

Generally, I thought the lighting would prove to be a pain in the rear....it turns out the simple stuff is....go figure!

[Capt. Bob]

Thank you for the advice on the pump, I will do some trouble shooting with the information you sent over.

My pleasure. I got it from another Forum but as Dave stated, it was easier for me to understand. I never had a Yamaha before and I used this to test the system when I first got the WAC. A lot of stuff going on with that precision blend oiling system (to me anyways)  

Good luck.

[Fletch170]

When reading a Yamaha service manual, you have to believe there are some things lost in translation

Step 1:

-Check the filter, Roundeye.

[Georgie]

Fletch,

Couple more thoughts.

I verified power to the VHF switch by using that switch to power the horn. It works

If you're short on switches, I'd suggest perhaps taking the vhf off of whatever switch it's currently wired to (since it obviously has its own on/off switch on the faceplate) and run it independently straight to the battery as long as you include the right size in-line fuse.  In my opinion, toggle switches should first be reserved for the accessories that don't have their own on-off switches (i.e. lights, bilge pump, horn).  Same principle obviously applies to the sterio if you had that on a switch.  Both of those are actually better off wired to your ingition switch so that turning the ignition to "on" turns on your stereo and vhf just like in a car.

Swap terminals and see what happens. If the toggle switch then works properly, follow up with your auto/float switch in the bilge to make sure it also works properly when the toggle is set to "auto".

Before you climb inside your console for this one, see if you can trigger the auto/float switch from the bilge when the toggle is set to manual.  If you can, then you know for sure your wiring is just reversed on the terminals at the back of the toggle.

I believe I have a bad ground.

Continuity test on the ground circuit between the VHF and the main negative batter terminal will verify this for sure, but if it's properly tied into the same main ground bus that your lights, GPS and finder are tied into then I wonder why it could be bad?  

Let's hope some liquid wrench and a beefy screwdriver does the trick!!!

Absolutely.  Largest flathead you can get in there, some light tapping with a hammer to pop any corroded bond, and perhaps some moderate torch/heat if it STILL won't break free.  At the same time. you sure don't want to strip this screw so try to be careful.  Those relief valve screws are beefy, but not indestructible.  Do some online research for this one to see how many successful techniques there are out there... tapping and torching might not be the most effective way.  I don't have air tools but a pneumatic with the extra vibrations might be the way to go!

Good luck!

[dburr]

Christian this is a shot in the dark.. I have not had to use the relief on my Yam, but on the Merc, it was a PLASTIC relief that has an o-ring on the inboard end.  The threads were stripped and no matter what I did it did not want to come out (the o-ring was holding it in) and the trim was sketchy at best..  Unlike the Yamahas it is on the starboard side and to get at it to remove it I had to pull the starboard bracket off, then unscrew and pull with vise grips, NOT a party for sure :cyclops: ..

The OX-66 is rigged on the port side and all I have had to do was add a little oil.  If you do try and open the resivior, be damn careful, it COULD be under pressure.. If you can crank the trailer tongue down, block up the lower unit and come up a bit on the tongue to take pressure off the tilt ram you may not shoot the filler cap across the shop.. What ever you do, keep your face away from the cap as you take it off.. Your Bride might not think you'd be to good lookin' with the fill cap imbedded in your forehead  

If you get that far and you don't have oil running all over the place that will likely be your answer, I am having a spell and can't remember if the level is checked full up or down, and the book is out in the shop..

 

[Fletch170]

Found this on the web for adding fluid.

I'll be heading to home depot to buy a giant screw driver, and another can of PB. If that doesn't work, I'll move to heat. If that does not work...it's impact wrench time. Hopefully I wont shear the damn head off.

.............saltwater series my ass:)

[Curious]

Don't forget about these:

https://www.google.com/search?q=impact+ ... 4AOvioC4Aw

The kind you tap the end with a hammer.  They work, I've used one on my lower unit lube drain.  Only problem is I don't think the tip is long enough for what you're trying to do.