New to Classic Aquasport and brimming with questions

[thebishop]

Hello all-

Greg here running a 1990 175 powered by a 2006 75hp E-TEC.  

Terrific site with a wealth of information and a great resource. I have been universally impressed by the quality of posts and level of expertise displayed.

Couple of question for you more experienced people regarding upgrades and renovations :

1. I am up here in Connecticut and to put it mildly the weather has been erratic. I am in the middle of painting my cockpit and possible topsides, finishing the prep to be precise, and was wondering what is a "safe" temperature and humidity level is to apply the epoxy primekote. I have called Interlux and received several contradictory answers , consulted the literature and spoke with professionals whose primary expertise is with awl grip . The variance in answers only is about the is about the same as the people I have consulted.

What is the story with painting the topsides, Interlux would have you believe a monkey could do it while others have made it sound like quite a chore. And, I am a little confused. for that matter and opions on the merits of perfection versus topside is appreciated.

I was informed by a painting professional using a dark color runs the risk of creating a catalysis of the polyester, in addition to flaws, durability, etc.  As I was shown on a professionally awl gripped boat, on dark colors over white gel coat the resin shrinks a bit and you get print-through of the hull. Apparently, the continued cure occurs even on decades-old boats.  

Basically, I am looking for someone who has completed a tip and roll job to give me insight. First on their results,  after putting in to many hours too count on prep, i want to ensure I do not screw this up. One of the problems I was informed of today is the possible of hazing, do to differentials temperatures in hull and air.

2. Can anyone tell me about their experience using inter-deck? I am think about sand beige. I am looking for the gallery posted by Warthog5, his deck is something I would like to replicate. however, can it be painted over with perfection should I decide I do not like the color down the road?

3. In installing a transducer from the CC to stern are there any tracks in which the should fit? In effect will it be a big mistake to run it over the gas tank and bilge?

4. Any advice on older OMC binnacle parts  and original Aquasport parts is appreciated

5. Finally, those of you who have a leaning post I would be interested on the merits vs the cooler swing back configuration that is standard on the 175.

All advice and comments are welcome. Thanks.

[pete]

Welcome aboard sir!
First of all we need some pics of your fine craft! As for some of your questions that I have knowledge of...rolling and tipping is best done by 2 people,1 to roll,1 to tip,will require 2 to 3 light coats sanded imbetween,but it does produce good[not as good as spraying] results.
Leaning post will help if you boat in any kind of rough water,you will be standing while underway and it will make the ride more comfortable.As for painting temps,I live in Florida no problem here,would go with the mfg recomendation,but err on the warmer side.Did I say we need pics?

[gran398]

Greg,

Your first post, welcome aboard!  You own a great boat, we're glad you're here, and welcome to our family.

Certainly won't attempt to answer all of your questions. Will fill in some blanks however.

Paint temp: Seventy degrees low humidity would be ideal for two-part epoxy. Under 55 is questionable, unless early in the day and the day is warming. Ideal would be inside, climate controlled, 72 degrees. Warmer is fine, work it in smaller batches quicker...want fair weather...no August dog days, etc.

Your many questions re the Awlgrip...would direct them to a local trusted supplier...not someone trying to "sell" a paint job.

No problem running transducer cable above the tank. Do your best to keep all runs, especially 12V, as far above the bilge as possible.

Thanks again for joining!

[RebelYell]

..

I rolled and tipped my 1990 200 Osprey here in Central FL about two years ago with Prekote and single stage Interlux Brightsides ( BluGlo White ).

At first, it will take two people to apply the paint. One to roll it out with a foam roller and another to lightly tip it off with a high quality fine bristle brush. Get your foam rollers and tipping brush at Lowes or Home Depot..Once you get the hang of it and the timing you "can" do it alone. You can't wait more than a few seconds between rolling and tipping or the paint will groove on you, however. Be sure to use their brushing thinner to thin your paint a little and keep a wet rag with brushing thinner handy to moisten your tipping brush as you go along ( After looking at the MSDS ( I am a Chemist ) you might be able to use kerosene as well but I would try it in an inconspicuous area first ).

The cheapest place to get your paint is http://www.WholesaleMarine.com. You can get the Prekote there by the gallon. Once upon a time you could get the polyurethane there by the gallon as well; but last time I checked you had to buy it by the quart.

Humidity didn't pose a problem for me here in FL but I did my boat in the spring when humidity was low. You will need to be under a shelter or preferably in a garage.

You will need to prep your surfaces and make them absolutely, totally clean of dirt, grime, silicone sealers, decals, adhesives etc. You will need to wipe down with acetone to remove wax. DO NOT USE ACETONE NEAR THE BOAT ONCE YOU HAVE APPLIED POLYURETHANE. Acetone will remove polyurethane.

Anyhow, once your surface is properly prepped, voids and holes are filled, etc. you will be ready to sand and apply Precote. Initially you will want to use a 120 grit sandpaper. Use an orbital sander. Wipe down the surfaces with tack cloth and also with a rag dampened with brushing thinner between coats.

I strongly recommend 2-3 coats or Precote topped off with AT LEAST 3 COATS of Brightsides. In between coats you will want to lightly sand with 220 grit; being sure to leave paint/primer on. After each coat and subsequent sanding you will want to wipe down with brushing thinner.

This might seem like a big deal but it isn't. Once you get your primer down you will get into the groove of it. It will take you 2-3 weekends; you will need to let the paint harden at least 24hours between coats.

Be sure and use at least 3 coats of Brightsides. I used 3 on my hull up to the gunnel cap and it is holding great. I only did two coats on the gunnel cap and into the interior and it is already flaking off. It won't be that hard to clean it up, sand it down and get a couple of more coats on....but I'll wait until this next winter here in FL when its cooler and the boat in in for a month or two.

One last thing. The two part stuff is good, to be sure, but its also very expensive. Another thing; once you activate the two part stuff you have to use it all or it will harden. YOU CANNOT PAINT OVER TWO PART POLYURETHANE WITH SINGLE PART AND VICE VERSA.  So once you choose a polyurethane type you are committed.

I chose single stage Brightsides because:

1) I didn't have access to compressed air and was basically doing a backyard project.

2) It was much, much cheaper and easier to work with ( by the time I was finishing up I was rolling and tipping all by myself ).

3) It holds up OK and will be easy for me to apply more topcoats as they weather over the years.


I feel like I made the right choice using a single stage polyurethane given the situation that I had to work with; my only regret is not doing 3 coats of Brightsides from the gunnel cap into the insides of the boat.

You might want to remove the console and all your hatches as part of this process. Definitely remove hardware, bowrails, etc. I did; it seemed cumbersome but I also rewired the boat, replaced the gas tank, etc so it made it much, much easier.

I also used plain old Bondo chopped glass ( the purple stuff in a can from Lowes ) along with Marine Tex for patching holes, and it has held up and keeps on the paint just fine. When I mentioned it at first some people on here disagreed with me, but it worked for me. Use the West System stuff if you have the money I guess. Fiberglass filler is fiberglass filler and Marine Tex is a great epoxy that will clean up with water....yes, water. If you want to go "Marine Grade" and have the money then by all means use West System, etc...it is very good stuff.

Be sure to use plenty of primer where you patch and let your epoxies/fiberglass patch cure thoroughly ( I gave it a week ) before applying primer.

If you take your time you will have a finished product that you can be proud of ! Good Luck !

 :joker:

[thebishop]

Thanks for your collective advice; it is most useful. As usual questions beget questions.

It seems as I am always standing while driving a leaning post will work well.

I noticed you all seem particular to Brightside. Is that a function of its relative ease of use or cost? If it is cost I would think if you factor in Perfections durability, lifespan and the time it take to paint a boat, it  actually makes Brightside  more expensive. In addition, it appears the Perfection will cover with less coats. Of course this assumption is based on the Interlux tech's statements on the products superior lifespan. Again, I would love to get any of your perspectives on it.

To be clear the fellow I spoke to was not trying to sell me a paint job he was just warning about the perils of painting dark colors over a white gel coat hull . He showed me print-through on a hull he had done with Awl Grip two years prior. His point was it is inevitable whoever paints it. Have any of you heard of this catalytic reaction? It is apparently a result of the increased hull temperature due to the heat absorption properties inherent to dark colors. Here is some information it:

http://billdietrich.byethost8.com/BoatPainting.html

RebelYell, as a chemist I would love to get your take. For that matter what causes a blue hue that has arisen where I used Marine Tex to fill a gouge? I assume this is something to do with the catalyst and needs to be fixed.

I am sure you will all laugh at the stupidity of this question but, here it goes. Why do you want want to avoid the bilge when running the transducer wire?

Another couple issues on which I am seeking advice. In the process of filling in a old cleat hole, one that was not through bolted, when I removed the screw the whole bled a brown water. I am assuming this is a result of the cleat screw not being properly seated with silicone and years of water seepage. My thought is to continue the hole, drilling completely through the gunwale so it drains into the  bilge.

Can you put polyester or epoxy resin over gels coat repairs? Or do i need to remove the old gel coat? I used some gel coat to repair a few scratches above the water line, now that I am going to paint I would prefer to use resin as I have found it to be tougher and am not enamored with the quality of my prior work.  

I will be posting pictures this weekend. Keep in mind she is being overhauled.

Thanks for the warm welcome.

Greg

[Capt. Bob]

I am sure you will all laugh at the stupidity of this question but, here it goes. Why do you want want to avoid the bilge when running the transducer wire?

Until someone proves me wrong, the entire area below the deck on our type boat is the bilge.
99% of my wiring runs through the bilge including the transducer cable.

Therefore, the only reason to avoid running the transducer cable through the bilge is to allow you to string it across the deck to create a trip hazard and thus creating an excuse for losing a good fish at the boat.

when I removed the screw the whole bled a brown water. I am assuming this is a result of the cleat screw not being properly seated with silicone and years of water seepage. My thought is to continue the hole, drilling completely through the gunwale so it drains into the  bilge.

Classic wood rod from water. You are correct until the end.
The goal is not to drain to the bilge but to prevent any water from entering by properly sealing the penetration.

[thebishop]

Should have been clear, I do  intend to seal the old hole with Marine Tex, I think that will do it. No? Is wood rot serious or a fact of life on an old boat. And, are you saying do not drill thru? The water that is already absorbed in the hull will seek the path of least resistance which will be the bilge if I drill thru, if not it will probably continue to bleed as it is doing now with Marine Tex in it.

[Capt. Bob]

Sorry, my bad.

You do need to remove the wet section if possible. Depending on the extent of the wetness there are products that "displace" the water and shore up the wood fiber. "Git Rot" comes to mind but there are others. At this point, photos of the area would help so you can get the best direction possible from the forum.

Remember though, wood rot is like prostrate cancer. You can continue on for some time (often years) with both but left untreated they will ultimately consume the host.

Good luck.

[gran398]

Sorry, my bad.

You do need to remove the wet section if possible. Depending on the extent of the wetness there are products that "displace" the water and shore up the wood fiber. "Git Rot" comes to mind but there are others. At this point, photos of the area would help so you can get the best direction possible from the forum.

Remember though, wood rot is like prostrate cancer. You can continue on for some time (often years) with both but left untreated they will ultimately consume the host.

Good luck.

Greg,

Would venture an educated guess that 90% of posts on "Rebuilds" are wet-wood related. There really aren't any good fixes for wet wood, as the water remains encapsulated between two layers of glass, pretty much anywhere on the boat where it has leaked in.

The "fixes" (Marine-tex, mixed epoxy, glue, etc.) are temporary band-aids that probably do the user more good than the boat under these conditions. They won't bond to moisture, they only become a solid plug amidst the wet.

Know its work, but dig it out and see what you have. Ck. the Rebuild forum, there are hundreds of references there dealing with exactly this issue, substrate replacement, and finish work.

Good luck

[thebishop]

Thanks all.

Will post a few pics of her and of the hole. After researching some of the fixes, I have decided the cures are beyond what I perceive to be the extent of the problem. Bleeding is limited to one hole in a series, so the rot seems to be very localized. I drilled thru to the bilge and filled the hole with marine text which appears to have solved the problem. In the absence of further water contact the damage should remain localized.