Doel-Fin

[JimCt]

What a deal!  Thank you for the great Vendor Service!  But if I buy it I'll keep it.  Shipping to & fro, with the cost of fuel these days, will likely eat the cost of the foil and then some.

Rick has the same vintage 170 as mine and with a little heavier motor so his findings will match pretty well to what I'd find.

[John Jones]

No problem.  Just PM me with the address when you are ready.  I'm in Albany NY this week for training so I can't box it up until the weekend.

or call me between 8AM and 10PM on my cell.
941-773-5772




Rick,  We need to meet up someday and compare boats.  I'd like to look at a 170 up close.  Someday I will need a new project  

[JimCt]

Will do.  TX.

[steved]

Hey JimCT,

I put a permatrim on my 200 Mariner on the 22.2 CCP this past year.  Really love the results (bow down, lower RPM minimum to plane, and better speed at mid-range - NOT better top speed but that was not an issue for me) and the extra cost as compared to the other foils was worth it for me.  If you go onto the Hull Truth (thehulltruth.com) and do a search you will find a ton of posts regarding foils.  Also on tabs.  It might be worth your while.

Cheers,

Steve

[RickK]

Good deal Rick.  Did you know that if you pull your boat up to Ruskin they will put it on for free?   I think you will like it.

I didn't know that and I don't remember reading "free install" on their site    Ruskin's not that far from here.
They did send the wrong one to me the first time, I took a couple pics showing how I didn't think it should fit this way, sent the pix to them, and they sent out another that day.  Still waiting for the UPS pickup for the wrong one.
Jim, I'll let you know how it works from this weekend - may have to wait for the "real test" though when I take my neighbor fishing and then there'll be "that weight" behind the console.

[RickK]

Rick,  We need to meet up someday and compare boats.  I'd like to look at a 170 up close.  Someday I will need a new project  

Sounds good to me.  There will be no comparison with your "cadillac" though.  I was looking at an old larger AS (20 or 222 I think - cuddy) where I bought my rebuilt motor and man what a difference - seemed huge.  They started making them much wider (I measured mine across, in front of the console this weekend and it is 6'10" to outside) and the transom appeared to be higher than on mine.  Mine will seem like a toy compared to yours.

[RickK]

I don't think I have the instructions anymore but maybe Rick could copy his for you.  All you will need is a tube of silicone rubber sealant that Bob's recommends to use when mounting.

There wasn't much for instructions - "mount on underside of cavitation plate with black washers between, clamp and drill".
I had to file down the cav plate a little to fit better (round out the corners) and I didn't use sealer.  JJ do you think it will really matter?  Jim, I'll take a pic for ya.  Looks a little different than JJs - mine fits very snug along the sides.

[John Jones]

I think maybe "crevice corrosion" is why they recommend the sealer.  That when trapped water causes corrosion.  Even stainless is subject to that.  That's why one sees rust stains around stainless fittings on boats.

I live maybe 15 miles north of Sarasota.  The 22-2 does look big for it's length.  I love the high sides and wider beam.  Most people think it is bigger than it really is.  I suppose the tower adds to the impression.

[Miguel]

I´m really interested in all your results.  As you know, I´ve been thinking about trim tabs.  At about $400 they are not cheap.  Maybe a foil is all I need.......I have no holeshot issues, but slow speed planing without burying the stern would be a plus.  I believe foils can´t help you with side to side trim adjustments like tabs do.    But for the price difference, I´d stick with the foil if your results are good.

[RickK]

I´m really interested in all your results.  As you know, I´ve been thinking about trim tabs.  At about $400 they are not cheap.  Maybe a foil is all I need.......I have no holeshot issues, but slow speed planing without burying the stern would be a plus.  I believe foils can´t help you with side to side trim adjustments like tabs do.    But for the price difference, I´d stick with the foil if your results are good.

If you check out the links to Bob's and poke around a little, you'll see that they have an international div too.
I'm thinking of taking friday off of work and goin' fishing.  Maybe I'll be able to let ya'll know that evening.  If not, at least Saturday.

[Mr. Osprey]

Miguel, try a doelfin. My AS planes at about 13-15mph when I speeed up and pull back on the throttle. At least I think it did........

[Miguel]

OK, Rick..... I´ll be expecting that report!!!!!

[RickK]

I think maybe "crevice corrosion" is why they recommend the sealer.  That when trapped water causes corrosion.  Even stainless is subject to that.  That's why one sees rust stains around stainless fittings on boats.

I don't think that it fits that exact to worry about that.

The 22-2 does look big for it's length.  I love the high sides and wider beam.  Most people think it is bigger than it really is.  I suppose the tower adds to the impression.

I have high sides too, if you consider knee high, high
In the front, just behind the casting deck, it might be mid-thigh, and then on the casting deck, it's back to knee high again.  Definitely not a deep water boat like yours, unless I run into it in the bay (deep water that is).  

[RickK]

Ok here it is.
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1246/sort/1/cat/500/page/1
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1247/sort/1/size/medium/cat/500/page/1
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1243/sort/1/cat/500/page/1

1. Hole shot - better.  Seems to come up and out in less time.  I didn't "jam it", just enough to get her on plane - from 2.5ft of water.
2. Slower speed planing - nope, still starts to sink at 20mph, level at 25.  Compare that with your 170s.  In pic#3 you can see that the width of the plate is not huge, I think the Doelfin I had was much wider so maybe you'll get better slower speed planing with it.
3. Steering - no difference.  never had a problem with my Doelfin either.
4. Speed difference - minus 1.5mph (top out at 38.5mph).  I do see another wake in my wake -  probably doesn't make sense to you but I can see that the plate is touching the water 'cause I can see water shooting off to the sides from it - a wake in my wake  
5. Trimming - trimmed it up to try to recapture speed loss and the boat started porpoising like it used to as the front end gets light.

Overall opinion - nice and sturdy (whacked my shins with it as I walked around the stern ), maybe could use it as a step to climb into the boat? I wouldn't try that with the Doelfin.
I think the Doelfin would do the same, maybe better at slower speed planing though.

Here is a pic of, what I hear, is one of the last bridges in Fla that swivels to open - pretty cool.
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1240/sort/1/size/medium/cat/500/page/1

And the pics you asked for of my boat afloat.
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1238/sort/1/size/medium/cat/500/page/1
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1237/sort/1/size/medium/cat/500/page/1
The last one shows how low she sits in the aft end.  2 batteries (100 lbs?), Engine (320 lbs), Trolling motor (25 lbs?) and PowerPole (30lbs with pump?) Now put a person back there running the trolling motor and...... or add 2-200lb+ guys behind the console and try to take off.

I also put more pix in my gallery.

[JimCt]

Thanks for the great pictures and the Consumer's Report quality review!

  In reading some other comments on the Bob's Machine hydrofoil, I gather the intent of the smaller size is to find a balance between gaining lift and keeping added drag to a minimum.  What strikes me about all of these foils is that they are "one size fits all".  Stingray, I believe, offers 2 sizes, but even so, the effect must be that some boat/motor combinations are under-foiled and others over-foiled.  Of course the answer to that concern is tabs & more $.

Jeepers, that is one sharp looking boat!  Looks like she's sitting on her lines just about right.  'Course with two 200 lb'ers back there that will push her down some.  Any place to put the batteries fwd. of the console?  Maybe even add some ballast in the forepeak locker?

Gave JJ the go-ahead to send up his surplus foil.  Will get it mounted in a week or so but won't be able to give it a try until the weather breaks.  Other project in the works is to replace the flimsy windscreen grab bar.  Got in touch with Arc-Tek ( www.arctekmarine.com ) about having a proper one fabricated.  His shop's nearby so I can run the boat over for measuring.

Guess you do have a wear problem with that cover! Only thing I can think of is to sew up some kind of thumb-less mitten made out of a mover's pad.  If something like that could be slipped over the windscreen upright it might provide enough cushioning to minimize the chafe.

Thanks again for the performance report & pictures.