Rebuild research

[gran398]

In process of rebuilding a 70's Aquasport. What follows is a report on research completed. Do not recommend one method over another. I am not an expert. Don't wish to create any type of pro this or that. Please take this as a report on observation. Thanks.

This input is from professional rebuilders and boatbuilders, some here in NC, but many from the Tampa area. Seabob4 has input here as well.

Transom:

 "The transom is solid, doesn't move." My '73 22-2 didn't either, no cracks at all, solid, but ripped it out anyhow. Was dry at the top. As went lower, was wet. At the very bottom, was rotten. Bronze bilge drain at the transom bottom broke its seal long ago...acted as a wick for moisture upward through the transom.

We kept the outer fiberglass skin to rebuild to. The trashed waterlogged transom left weighed in at best estimate between 180 and 200 lbs.

Stringers:

We started off happy with the stringers. They had not been pierced from above. Re-builder said looked good. Took off some  top slices, checked the old foam. Was dry. But because of input from here, asked him to drill the stringers at their base for moisture..different story. Foam was shot...again, water intrusion from below. Interesting side-note. When dug the foam out, there was a moderate run of plywood on the inboard side of each stringer. Not glassed in, just floating, and not connecting anything. SB surmised it was placed there for temporary structural integrity, 'till the resin set off.

Deck:

Wooden deck shot. Expected that.

Rebuild:

Transom. New 25" Coosa transom, open. Thanks guys for the layup schedule.

Stringers:

Add glass internally to stringers. New closed cell foam. Coosa bulkheads, splitting the deck joints as you guys mentioned. Outer lengthwise mini-stringers beneath the outboard deck above the chines, glassed in for deck support.

Deck: Was going with 3/4 Nida-Core. After conversation with a Tampa re-builder, will go with 5/8ths Nida, glassed 3 ply both sides. Finished height one inch max above stock.

Since Nida (and Coosa, Divini-Cell, etc.) are incapable of holding screws/bolts, the pros say to imbed (inlay) ""perm-alloy"...a moderate weight, high density polymer structural bedding material. Inlaid, cut in, glassed in. Directly beneath the high-load areas. Console, T-Top, leaning post/livewell. Give yourself a solid 5 inch strip for leeway on the screw placement.

But a professional I respect says this is not necessary. Glass in 1/4 inch aluminum plate beneath the sole, drill and tap for threading. Says could go with 3/8th's plate...but overkill. Same build spec as a Rybovich. Make sure to shoot 5200 in the hole before final bedding. And don't tighten too tight....do not "dimple" the floor...no overkill...If you ever need to remove it....you'll need a wrecking bar, and a forklift.

And getting back to the sole....this thinking directly attributed to Seabob....thanks bro.

All production boats were turned out FAST. Bottom line, was a number at the end of a week.

A quality cockpit sole wasn't based upon which core was utilized...it was based upon fiberglass work/finish/sealability.
So to you guys that went with AC fir...good deal, that is what Seamark http://www.seamarkboats.com/ continues to use.
On production lines back then, they weren't given the time to get it right...but we as re-builders have the opportunity to get it right. Seabob makes an excellent point.

And if you go with properly glassed fir...a lot of money saved....glue it and screw it.  

[fitz73222]

Good report Scott!

Cant wait to see her in a month...Hope you are taking pictures of the process!

[MarshMarlowe196]

Interesting, pertinent info.  I like at'  :pl:

[Skoot]

This is Nice and all.........

       .........But WE NEED SOME PICS DAMMIT :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:      

Let's get to it Scott,  We all know Brother Lew sent you his camera.  

[Capt. Bob]

WE NEED SOME PICS

I lieu of recent posts concerning hearsay/gossip, I agree.
 
Everyone knows what a pic is worth.
Well we've had the thousand words so.......

[slvrlng]

WE NEED SOME PICS

I lieu of recent posts concerning hearsay/gossip, I agree.
 
Everyone knows what a pic is worth.
Well we've had the thousand words so.......

[seabob4]

Scott and I had a pretty lengthy discussion last night regarding re-building processes, and also how boats are built in the first place, at the production level...

While wood has been used for stringers, transoms, coring, cockpit soles, etc. for many, many years, it has earned a terrible reputation for it's unique ability to rot.  But, in all retrospect, it's not the woods fault.  It's the builders fault.  At the OEM, or production level, proper sealing and encapsulation of wood items is not the driving force in building a boat...the SCHEDULE is!  I've seen it at WC/AS, at Hydra-Sports, at Stamas, at Pro-Line.  And don't think Grady, Pursuit, Edgewater, Donzi, whomever, are any different.  The install of stringers, transoms, virtually any component of a boat, has a set time, or standard applied to it, and anything that causes that install process to take longer causes the company to loose money, causes the management to get pissed off at the workers, well, you get my drift.  Corners are cut.  Air is not evacuated thoroughly.  Glass is not wetted out properly.  And on and on.

One of biggest sources of water intrusion into stringers, be they foam or wood, is the weep holes drilled through them to drain compartments.  The very best protection I have seen at the companies I have worked for is to simply paint the insides of the holes with gelcoat.  Just a step above doing nothing at all.  Gelcoat is a semi-permeable material, and, it water sits in contact with it for any decent length of time, it will pass through the gel and be absorbed by whatever is behind it.  Now, seal those holes properly with a waterproof epoxy, and the problem is gone.

Transoms suffer water intrusion by the improper sealing off any component attached to it, be it an engine, a transducer, trim on the cap, swim platforms, whatever.  Transoms are very well sealed when the hull is pulled, but the subsequent introduction of mounting holes, and the improper use of sealant, spells their doom before the boat ever rolls off the line.  And don't let the ads from builders fool you.  They can say what they want, I've worked for these guys, and a lot of them are full of chit.  

Scott was asking about t/bolting components (console, T-Top, Leaning Post) after the floor is down and one can't access the underside.  I suggested glassing 1/4" aluminum plate on the underside of the floor where the components will be located.  Then, when the floor is down permanantly, simply locate the components, then drill and tap for bolts.  This process is used all over the industry, especially on most of the higher end boats, as there are only so many access plates you can put in a cockpit sole without the boat looking like cheddar cheese.  You can step up to 3/8", but most builders use 1/4"...

So what I'm trying to say here is that, when rebuilding a boat, YOU have the time to do it right.  You don't have a schedule.  So don't be afraid of the use of wood.  Just install it properly, and it will last the lifetime of the boat, with no structural issues.  Sometimes I think composites for use in the marine environment were developed to simply hide the inadequacies of the builders in doing the job right.  Although, I have to say, when it comes to Coosa, you can't beat it for a transom.  1/2 the weight of ply, no rot possibilities, same structural integrity.  A bit pricey, but, good chit doesn't come cheap.  Use Bluewater 26 if you're going to do a transom...

OK, off my soapbox now...

[gran398]

Excellent!!

Lew....can I get that tracking #?

 

[Capt. Bob]

Well now I know why the Phoenicians aren't the dominant society in the world today.

Too much cedar and not enough Coosa.



We now have two thousand words but still no pics.

Lewis,
did you send that camera via the Barefoot Mailman? :o

[fitz73222]

I will have a word with Mr. Rhodes after supper this evening...WE WILL HAVE PICTURES. I will be in Wilmington in a month to personally view the resurrection of the Rah...and I will take pictures!!!

[gran398]

You guys are killin' me...

Captain John sent me a "SanDisk MobileMate" so can scan pics into my old software here at the store. Thanks John! Now that V-tines is over, will get on with it.  

[GoneFission]

Scott - go Bro!  Sounds like the boat is moving along well.  Regarding  the pics - we can make you a tech-nerd yet!  Post some pics or send them to me and I'll post 'em.

[seabob4]

Scott - go Bro!  Sounds like the boat is moving along well.  Regarding  the pics - we can make you a tech-nerd yet!  Post some pics or send them to me and I'll post 'em.

I guess this is "Rag on Scott" day!  I've been waiting for the rest of the Hatteras pics for...well, a while now...

[gran398]

Rag away brothers! I went by the health food/alternative oriental herbal place. They sell this supplement called "Armadillo Skin."

     

Up early, gonna run over to Seamark this morning and take a buncha pics. Especially want you guys to see that waterlogged transom.

Thanks all  

[fitz73222]

Hey Scott,
You mean real photographs right? Not artists renderings in charcoal similar to the one seen during courtroom reporting followed by a wonderful storylike passage on the subject of wet foam and rotten wood as we gather round the campfire and listen to Uncle Scotty tell us the strory of the "old Aquasport". LOL.