concealed carry Kel-Tec .380

[Glock Diver]

You guys, I'm a bit taken aback by the conceal thread here, as well as on THT.  It sounds like, to me, that there is an ever growing fear of being accosted on the street, at one's business, or at home.  Am I living in a vacumn?  I haven't seen this type of behavior, not in the Weeki Wachee neck of the woods.  Yes, we are close to St. Pete/Tampa, and all they have to offer, but really, I never feel a threat...but then we have a Panera Bread 2 miles away...not much need for a .380 or 9mm there, nor at the Bed, Bath, and Beyond...

Bob,
I hear ya.  But tell that to the employees and customers at this Panera Bread Robbery.  

http://alpharetta.11alive.com/content/a ... nera-bread

Or this robbery at a Bed Bath & Beyond:

http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-story-b ... 5142.story


Not trying to be a smart ass, just making that point that bad things can happen anywhere, at anytime, to anyone.  I read a statistic somewhere that a convenience store clerk has a higher rate of being the victim of a shooting than a police officer.  I'll post that study if I can find it.

[flounderpounder225]

You guys, I'm a bit taken aback by the conceal thread here, as well as on THT.  It sounds like, to me, that there is an ever growing fear of being accosted on the street, at one's business, or at home.  Am I living in a vacumn?  I haven't seen this type of behavior, not in the Weeki Wachee neck of the woods.  Yes, we are close to St. Pete/Tampa, and all they have to offer, but really, I never feel a threat...but then we have a Panera Bread 2 miles away...not much need for a .380 or 9mm there, nor at the Bed, Bath, and Beyond...

Bob,
I hear ya.  But tell that to the employees and customers at this Panera Bread Robbery.  

http://alpharetta.11alive.com/content/a ... nera-bread

Or this robbery at a Bed Bath & Beyond:

http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-story-b ... 5142.story


Not trying to be a smart ass, just making that point that bad things can happen anywhere, at anytime, to anyone.  I read a statistic somewhere that a convenience store clerk has a higher rate of being the victim of a shooting than a police officer.  I'll post that study if I can find it.

Hey Mike,
Wondered when you were going to chime in...  
Marc

[Glock Diver]

Anyways, now to weigh in on the .380 vs. 9mm Luger concealable compact debate!

If you're carrying a sub-compact pistol, it's for self defense, right?  Not for plinking.  Not for training. Not for target practice. Self defense.  Those who are considering a .380:  have you ever looked at the terminal ballistics of a .380 round, compared to a 9mm?  There's really no comparison.  

A typical 95-grain .380 bullet will exit a 4" barrel at about 905 fps, and 192 ft-lbs of kinetic energy.

A typical 115-grain 9mm bullet will exit same barrel at about 1200 fps, with around 350 ft-lbs of kinetic energy.  Almost double the .380. And you can also get a 9mm+P round, or even 9mm +P+, which will increase the velocity and thus the energy.


As far as gun makes/models... You usually get what you pay for.  I've shot a Kel-Tec, and it felt like I was shooting a $250 gun.  I've shot plenty of Glocks (shocker, right?   ), and it felt like I was shooting a $500 gun.  The most concealable 9mm I've found yet is the Kahr PM9.  Here's mine below.  It has a single-stack 6 round or 7 round magazine, and it fits nicely in this pocket holster from K&D Holsters.  The Kahr's size is equal to many pocket .380's I've seen, but with the added benefit of coming in a serious caliber.

Just MHO!  



Here's a good list of common handgun calibers and their characteristics:
http://www.genitron.com/ammunition/ammo.html

[seabob4]

I shall respectfully bow out of this thread, and I sincerely wish all the members the greatest safety in all their endeavors...

[Glock Diver]

Sounds like there's 4 sub-compact pistols being discussed here, so I'll post the specs so you can see how similar they are.


Kel-Tec P3AT  .380
Overall Length: 5.2"
Height 3.5"
Width: .79"
Weight: 8.3 oz


Ruger LCP  .380
Overall Length: 5.16"
Height 3.6"
Width .82"
Weight: 9.40 oz


Kahr PM9  9mm
Overall Length: 5.3"
Height: 4.0" (with 6-round magazine. Also comes with a 7-round.)
Width: .90"
Weight: 14 oz


Ruger LC9  9mm
Overall Length: 6"    
Height: 4.50" (with 7-round magazine)
Width: .90"
Weight: 17.10 oz

[wingtime]

I'm really looking forward to seeing the Ruger LC9 in person. None to see here yet and I heard it may be some time before they make it to the local gun stores.  As much as I want a 9mm or even a .40SW in a compact carry I just don't think think the compact single stack 9mm is  going to be small enough for light weight shorts in the hot summer time.  A .380 while small has much more stopping power when I have it with me over my favorite Springfield 45 sitting in the case at home!  I also believe if you get a .40 or even a 9mm in a small package it's not going to have enough mass to it to be very controllable.  I'd rather hit my assailant with a .22 than miss him with a compact .45!  I really like the looks of the LCP with the Crimson Trace laser.  I think I might just get one of those now and then see what the LC9 is like when it becomes available.

[flounderpounder225]

Sounds like there's 4 sub-compact pistols being discussed here, so I'll post the specs so you can see how similar they are.


Kel-Tec P3AT  .380
Overall Length: 5.2"
Height 3.5"
Width: .79"
Weight: 8.3 oz


Ruger LCP  .380
Overall Length: 5.16"
Height 3.6"
Width .82"
Weight: 9.40 oz


Kahr PM9  9mm
Overall Length: 5.3"
Height: 4.0" (with 6-round magazine. Also comes with a 7-round.)
Width: .90"
Weight: 14 oz


Ruger LC9  9mm
Overall Length: 6"    
Height: 4.50" (with 7-round magazine)
Width: .90"
Weight: 17.10 oz

Thanks Mike, that is a great bottom line breakdown of the ones I am looking at, because those specs are what makes it more or less concealable.  I will look at the PM9 today at the show.
Marc

[Glock Diver]

I'm really looking forward to seeing the Ruger LC9 in person. ....I just don't think think the compact single stack 9mm is  going to be small enough for light weight shorts in the hot summer time.  ....  I also believe if you get a .40 or even a 9mm in a small package it's not going to have enough mass to it to be very controllable.  ....

Yes, that LC9 looks pretty nice.  There are several for sale on www.gunbroker.com - current auction price is around $446.  Some others have BUY IT NOW prices of $499. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =214569729
One word of caution about new model guns-- most have bugs and kinks to be worked out, immediately following release.  Just like cars, trucks, and outboard motors.  If you buy one the first couple months they're available, you run the risk of later wishing you had waited a year, and letting other people discover the flaws with the pistol!

About your other point- I agree. A single-stack 9mm is heavy if you're wearing light weight shorts.  My Kahr PM9 is fine for cargo shorts or khaki shorts where I use a belt, but it's too heavy if I'm wearing athletic shorts with only an elastic waistband.  However, I think a lighter .380 would also be too heavy in those types of pockets.  JMHO.

Controllable- I owned a Sig P232, which was an all-metal .380.  (Looks kinda like the 007 Walther PPK). Damn was that thing snappy.  More recoil snap than my other caliber guns.  I sold it.  Now, .380's with a polymer frame will absorb some of that recoil, but I still think you'd be surprised at how controllable a mini 9mm can be.  Now, a .40S&W round?  That's another story!  

[flounderpounder225]

Back from the Gun Show, bought the Taurus TCP .380, instantly liked it, even more so than the ruger, much more room in the trigger guard area, because the FWD part of the trigger guard is angled fwd, rather than straight up.  Also came with 2 mags, and a bulldog cell phone/PDA belt case for total concealment if I don't want to carry in my pocket.  Hadn't even seen this one while looking around.  The guy gave me a good deal, $299, out the door.  Thanks all for the input
Marc

http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus-PT738.htm

[John Jones]

That caught my wife's eye last weekend.  Felt pretty good.  I had forgotten about that one.

Just a derail side note.  My wife is mostly neutral about guns.  Does not want to bother to learn to use one properly and I doubt she would carry anyway.  We were just walking along and she stopped and picked up a Springfield 1911 and said "This is the one I want".     Maybe there is hope for her yet.

[wingtime]

I went looking at subcompact guns again the other day.  I thought I had my mind made up until the salesmen put a Sig Sauer P238 in my hands.  WOW!  They shrunk a 1911 down into a .380!  Nothing like the familiar feel and location of all the controls.  Nice looking solid gun with a super tight fit and feel.  The polymer framed 380s felt like squirt guns compared to this baby. (my girlfriends words not mine)  Now if that darn IRS return would get here!

[flounderpounder225]

Back from the Gun Show, bought the Taurus TCP .380, instantly liked it, even more so than the ruger, much more room in the trigger guard area, because the FWD part of the trigger guard is angled fwd, rather than straight up.  Also came with 2 mags, and a bulldog cell phone/PDA belt case for total concealment if I don't want to carry in my pocket.  Hadn't even seen this one while looking around.  The guy gave me a good deal, $299, out the door.  Thanks all for the input
Marc

http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus-PT738.htm

Shot 5 clips through it, 2 jambs on the first clip, dis-assembled, cleaned and oiled, the rest of the clips perfect, 4" group at 30 Ft.  Nice
Marc

[John Jones]

Nice.  They all need a little breaking in.  Great shooting for a pocket pistol.

 

[John Jones]

We will have to get together this summer Marc.  I am waiting on a date to be set for the closing on a house near Bay Minette, AL.  It will probably be a couple of months before I move but I should be there before summer.  Per Google maps, it's right at a 1 hour drive to the Pensacola airport.

[flounderpounder225]

We will have to get together this summer Marc.  I am waiting on a date to be set for the closing on a house near Bay Minette, AL.  It will probably be a couple of months before I move but I should be there before summer.  Per Google maps, it's right at a 1 hour drive to the Pensacola airport.

I catered a wedding/reception out there 2 years ago, my GPS got lost   I think I saw a redhead freckled kid playing the banjo as I drove by.  Naw, it's nice out there, I am planning on the gathering down in Boca Grande in May, so hope to see you there.