1998 245 Tournament

[Patrick]

    Thank you, your a life saver.

I'm trying to get all the water out of the hull before the weather makes it all freeze. Right now the only way I can not get 10 plus gals of water out of the front of the boat is to tilt it on the trailer forward and pump it out with the front bilge pump.   When I tilt the boat Back /aft as height as I can get it only a drop every two seconds. That all that will come out the plug hole.          My findings were the same as  " Hozenya "    After  poking around with a fiberglass push pull rod, I found that the aft drain hole in the bilge area you would hit the fuel tank as soon as entered the hole. Tried angling the rod in all directions but still hit the tank!   My best guess is the tank has slide back and is now resting right up against the drain pipe and its completely block the hole.  OR at least that's theory.
I tried pulling the tank forward but could not move it as of yet.

[Capt. Bob]

More to think about.

First, here is the shelf.


This is looking down (duh) and from the front bilge drain pipe (white area). The shelf rest just above the "V in the keel and provides flat mounting for the tank. Disregard the tank in this pic as I have installed a smaller tank.

In the rear section of the coffin the tank will be very close to the drain and again, the space between the shelf and drain is minimal so it is possible you are hitting the tank. It does not take much to trap water under this shelf and that may very well be your problem but.....

If water is piling up in the forward bilge, you may have excess water in the tank coffin itself and that is what causes the aluminum tank failures in the links provided.

Good luck.

[Patrick]

Capt Bob,

As far as I can tell the tank is not leaking. I guess a pressure test would determine that.

Questions:     Is water suppose to pass threw the tank coffin?
                       Is it possible my tank shifted back and is blocking the  rear drain pipe?   If so, should I try to move it a little?
                      What you suggest I try next?

 I can drain the coffin area by tilling it forward and pumping it out with the front bilge.  I could dry out the area.   Is it advisable to plug the coffin off in efforts to keep water out?   

I appreciate you help !

[Capt. Bob]

Yes, water passes from the front bilge through the tank coffin to the rear bilge.

I would agree that tilting forward and trying to remove as much water as possible is a good idea. I would pump the forward bilge first then tilt forward and see how much more drains into the forward bilge. Pay close attention to any water that might drain. Look for sheen on the surface and give it a good "whiff" test for fuel vapors.

I think you will have a hard time trying to move the tank. I would not suggest that. Shifting of the tank often causes corroded sections to rupture and leak. Until you can confirm a leaking tank, let that sleeping dog lie. If you encounter fuel in the water you drain forward, then you will be moving the tank.

In the photo I posted of my tank coffin, the white is 5200 adhesive beaded around a screw in plug I used to block off the forward bilge from the tank compartment (coffin). I did the same on the rear drain pipe of the tank coffin on the bilge side. My thought was to keep the compartment as dry as possible. If necessary, these plugs can be removed.

I use the forward bilge pump to drain that section. Any residual water is removed with my wet vac at the house during clean up. Rear bilge is the same procedure.

Good luck

[Patrick]

Capt.Bob,

   I worked on her again this afternoon.  I tilted the boat forward to dry and pump out as much water as I could. Many gallons. I tried forcing it trough the aft bilge to no avail. I put more water in the coffin at the rear stringer only to see it come forward.     By the way, I was the one that put all that fresh water in there in the beginning efforts to clean out the blockage I discovered.  I should also tell you that this boat is a recent purchase for me. Moving along... I did not smell any fuel in the water.   I looked at the tank again threw the two pie access.  I believe it’s the 140 gal tank.  After taking a real close look I determined the tank did not move.   I am basing that on the multiple supports that were there and were tight up against the tank.    I manage to snap a picture of the back of the tank were my problem is and its butted  up against the PVC pipe that goes though the aft stringer.   That my problem… My guest it was like that for many years.  The tank coffin will drain great to the forward bilge direction but will only drip a drop or two a second out the aft with the plug out in my drive way with a major tilt.  I attached a picture.  I hope i did that correctly.

 I’m letting it drip dry.  I can only plug the tank coffin on the v-berth side of the front stringer just behind the front bilge pump.  Thoughts?   On the aft side of the coffin it can't come in. Or perhaps I should say, only a drip at a time should the aft bilge not take care of things.

[Patrick]

Capt.Bob

Here is a picture of my electrical panel.  Didn't I read you wired a lot of these?

[Capt. Bob]

OK Patrick, let's start with the first post.

You are correct, the 1998 catalog indicates a 141 (?) gallon fuel tank in your model.

Looking at your photo of the tank, several things might be going on so without removing the tank, we have to speculate.

First photo is of my 91 WAC tank from above. You can see the aluminum straps holding the tank in place but more importantly, notice that the tank fits fairly snug within the compartment.

Tank from above:


Next is a couple of shots with the tank removed. While it's somewhat hard to see, hopefully my description will help.

Coffin front:


In this pic, notice the "shelf" does not reach all the way forward to the front bulkhead but rather stops about 6" shy. Also note the rubber straps that were used to reduce chafing between the tank and the coffin walls. The black color is a combo of water, fuel and mold.

Coffin rear:


In this pic, the shelf is hard to see clearly due to the condition of the coffin but it runs closer to the rear bulkhead than in front.

Rear Bilge:


Look closely at this pic and tell me if your rear bilge drain is like this. I realize your access will be different. Point is, the factory sawed off the top of the PVC pipe (bologna cut). This was also done like this in the tank compartment both fore and aft. It's hard for me to tell if it is what I'm seeing in your pic. Had you had the snake in the rear drain when you took the pic, you could tell for sure.

Also, I see what appears to be a mounting/chafe strap visible just sneaking out from the bottom end of the tank. This may indicate that the shelf is not present but rather the tank rests on straps just above the "V" formed by the keel. In either case, the area for the passage of water is at best, limited and therefore easily blocked. This could be from a number of things such as material left from the original construction, "smoothness" of the V in the keel, dirt, dislodged rubber mounting or any number of things that have worked their way into that small conveyance under the tank. If the tank was indeed (and it appears so in your pic) to have been placed against the drain it would still have allowed some passage of water but again the size of reduced drain could be easily blocked.

Without removing the tank itself, you are left to assume any or all of the above. Personally, I would block the forward and rear bilge from the outside of the bulkheads to limit the water from entering the tank coffin. Ideally, the two drains into and out of the coffin would be connected thus allowing water to move between each compartment without contacting the tank itself. These of course are just my opinions on keeping the compartment as dry as possible to increase tank longevity.

Lastly no, I am not the "Bob" who worked at Aquasport so that is not my handiwork. Are you experiencing problems with your system?

Good luck.  

[Patrick]

" Look closely at this pic and tell me if your rear bilge drain is like this. I realize your access will be different. Point is, the factory sawed off the top of the PVC pipe (bologna cut). This was also done like this in the tank compartment both fore and aft. It's hard for me to tell if it is what I'm seeing in your pic. Had you had the snake in the rear drain when you took the pic, you could tell for sure. "

Capt.Bob,

    Thank you for the very detailed information. I had to look up what a "bologna cut" is. lol.  The way i understand the term is its not cut on a 90 deg angle " it angled by design to prevent clogging as easy etc"     I attached a picture of the aft side of the rear stinger for you as requested. The shot is from the rear bilge area looking forward under the fish box. That the rod I used and hit the tank. My thoughts are that the pvc on the tank side look just like bilge side in my picture and are cut at 90 deg.   I hope I'm wrong and find the bologna cut.  I hope to have a chance in the next day or two to get you a better picture with the snake in there etc.  It was very difficult to that picture from yesterday post. I also need to edit the contrast so we could see it at all.

     Plugging the coffin from the front should be easy. ( I will try to send you a picture of that)  Now,plugging from the rear bilge area with a standard plug will be in possible.  I maybe able to fabricate something special for that task.

PS: My electrical is fine.

[Capt. Bob]

I had to look up what a "bologna cut" is.

Well I first came across the term in my teen piston head car days concerning the end cut on an exhaust pipe.
It's still popular with the V twin bike crowd but the term is often replaced with "slash cut" for a more adult appetite.

http://www.jpcycles.com/product/444-654

[dburr]

Patrick it you want to speed up the drain, why not get an installers drill bit (REALLY long twist drill) and shoot some holes in the PVCt on the tank side or use a long handle back cut saw and whack the end off the PVC?  Either option is going to be a phenomenal pain, but if the object is to get better drainage, the lesser of the evils, tank pulling vice PVC mashing, would be attacking the PVC, albeit with care not to break the bond with the bulkhead..  If you plug the ends, you have no guarantee that water/condensation will not get in there and cause problems. 

No solution is going to be easy on that one I am afraid, but if you can open the end of the PVC, at least it will drain faster..

Good luck!

[Patrick]

 "why not get an installers drill bit (REALLY long twist drill) and shoot some holes in the PVCt on the tank side or use a long handle back cut saw and whack the end off the PVC?  Either option is going to be a phenomenal pain, but if the object is to get better drainage, the lesser of the evils, tank pulling vice PVC mashing, would be attacking the PVC, albeit with care not to break the bond with the bulkhead..  If you plug the ends, you have no guarantee that water/condensation will not get in there and cause problems"

Dave, 

     I am with you on that thought of just opening with ether cutting it from the inside out, cutting it with the magic string trick or drilling a hole in the top of it etc.  I ruled out the inside pvc pipe cutter.  I feel that unsafe because it butts against the tank at least with the current tooling that I found online.  The magic string trick " using sting to cut pvc" would have worked but it could not fish the anything around the pvc pipe.  Now the extended drill bit is a great idea  and I have been considering that option for days and may do it that way.  What makes that option tricky is,  I am working though the pie hole at the aft end of the 140gal tank.  The only way a drill bit would line up with the pvc  is to drill a hole though the deck about 5" pass the pie hole.  My son has access to a  live feed camera and a  laptop for viewing the pvc and the drill cutting area.  But..... I have at lease one move trick up my sleeve to try today. If that doesn't work, I guess I'm drilling the deck.   My thoughts are,  if I drill the deck,  I will keep the hole as small as the drill bit used in hopes of an easier patch job.     Approximately  a 3/8  bit should do. . 

[Patrick]

Got it !

    What I starting doing the other day was pouring 4 gal of water in the front bilge and collecting it aft drain in a 5 gal bucket and some what time how fast it would drip out looking for improvements.   Today I tried moving the fuel tank forward again.  If I could have moved it even 1/8 of and inch that would have been the best outcome. But...  Its not going to move.   See the pictures.  after my attempt I put the 4 gallons of water though it again just to see if there was a differences. very, very little difference.   It may have started dripping a little faster but still not acceptable.   All out of options, out came the drill... I measured 3 times and drilled once.   I used a 3/8 bit.   I put the 36"  3/8 bit though the hole.  With the dead reckoning method  I lined it up.   I spiked my mark on the pvc pipe.   I carefully chucked the bit without loosing my mark.  I very slowly drilled until I was satisfied I was though.   I took the same 4 gallons of water and pored it in the front bilge again.  As expected the water was coming out much, much faster.  Instead of taking hours to dip though it took about 5 to 10 minutes.

 I plug the deck with 5200 for now.  Thoughts?   

Thank you all for you help especially  Capt.Bob !    Your help was and is much appreciated !

Patrick

[Patrick]

Other pictures

[Patrick]

Other pictures

[Patrick]

More pictures. Wish they would all send a once..