new member question on transom upgrade

[bondobill]

Hi all, new to the forum, have owned a 1979 222 FF deep vee since 1990. Have a  1989  225 yamaha exell on it that just bit the bullet. Had the engine rebuilt 8 years back, because of the age and running it in the pacific northwest in strictly salt water i figure it's time for a new outboard. Question is will this hull handle the weight of a four stroke. I would need a v6 and comparing all available the weight is pretty much around 600#. My old 2 stroke is right around #500. The boat handled the yamaha very well, cruised around 30mph @ 4000 rpm  @ about 11 gallons a hour. I am done with 2 strokes i put $8000 into the rebuilt less than 300 hours back so installing another 2 stroke is not an option. I would like to fill in the transom and install a Armsrong flotation bracket on it. I do Have trim tabs installed on the boat that are 9x12 and would like to install Lenco 12x12 tabs, this is about as big as i can go because of limit of space on the transom. Anyway we have done some modification to the transom a few years back, had the engine well removed and filled in the floor back to the transom, the gentlemen who did the work installed a stainless brkt that ties into the  stringers and give extra support to the transom where the motor bolts on, repairs have not shown any signs of stress cracking since we did it 10 years ago. My questions are what is the best way to tell if we have any rot problems and where to look in the originial transom, the man who did the work on the engine well drilled some holes from the inside of the transom to check for rot,@ that time he said we had some moisture in the transom but was not rotten and didn't need replacing, he claimed it must be a good grade of marine plywood. 5 years back i had a marine survey done for insurance reasons the surveyor said transom showed some signs of moisture but was solid and didn't need any repairs @ that time. The boats sit on a trailer in my shop and the only time it gets wet is when it is in the water for a day. I will post some photos later of what the transom and upgrades look like. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I hate to put a ton of money into this hull with a brkt and new 4 stroke and find out on the madien voyage i made a mistake. Thanks--------Bill

[bondobill]

Hi , having a heck of a time with photos, opened up acct. with photo bucket, hope this works. Pictures of my Aqua Sport  and transom. Thanks--------Bill  http://s731.photobucket.com/albums/ww31 ... =slideshow

[LilRichard]

Here's a few quick points:

- Adding a bracket creates additional leverage on the hull - so if your transom is even slightly weak (which old transoms normally are) it will exacerbate the problem

- Adding a bracket will also change the CG of the boat, most likely putting the scuppers under water.  Some brackets have more floatation than others, which may help some.

- I definitely like four strokes (I own a 'Zuke), but the Merc Optimax is a great motor and is 500 #s

- If you want to find out how your transom is, drill a few holes and check out the wood.  Make sure to backfill with epoxy.  Take a sample from a few different spots (near the motor, near the drain, near any other places things are mounted)

My thoughts: if it were my boat and the transom is relatively good, just slap a new motor on and use it.  I think a light four stroke would probably be OK if your test proves the transom is absolutely sound.  If it's wet, don't take the chance.

If you're absolutely sold on a bracket, I am rather certain you will need to rebuild the transom first (which you will have to do to close it in anyway).

[RickK]

Welcome aboard bondobill  :!:  :!:
Your boat looks to be in great shape - ditto on what LilRich said.

[bondobill]

Thanks for the reply Rick & Richard. Tonight i am going to drill some holes in the inside of the transom and see what i got. If the transom looks good it would be a lot easier to just hang a new 4 stoke on it. Before i do that  seeing how the yamaha is still on the boat i am going to add 125#of lead to the back of the boat drop her in the water and see if the scuppers  are above water, if they under water then i will have to rethink what to do.  Would not a flotation bracket help with bouyancy when the boat is at rest or when trolling with kicker motor. If i have to redo the transom i would probably try to do it myself with a lot of suggestion from member of this forum. I have been in auto body collision repair my whole live and am  owner of  a collsion shop my dad started 50 years ago so i have done guite a bit of fiberglass work  in the 40 years I have been in the buisness. Friends ask me why i would want to put this much time and money into the old gal . I just tell them the boat does everthing i ask of her, she rides nice, it's a good fishing platform for how i use it and it's a heck of a lot less money than a new one. Any way I will keep you posted.  Thanks---------Bill

[slippery73]

The small amount of flotation provided by the flotation bracket will probably just offset the additional weight of the bracket and the new heavier motor, you might break even all said and done, at rest. Under power you still have that extra weight of the bracket and new motor, and its also now 18"+ off the back of your transom so its multiplying those forces exponentially. One plus about the brackets is although they do add additional stress to the transom if you get one of the platform type brackets you will actually strengthen your existing transom. They are so wide they spread the load across the entire transom and don't provide as much of a hinge point for failure. This of course would depend on what condition your transom is in. As long as the wood isn't rotten or wet it would be near impossible to have a transom failure with one of those brackets, thats why are readily put on older hulls.

[bondobill]

Well I drilled 4 holes in the inside of the transom last night. One down by the drain hole, one @ where the motor bolts go through the transom and  one on each side inside the stringers. I drilled probably to big of holes but I wanted to be able to get a small knife inside the holes to dig out some wood. Had aheck of a time getting any pieces of wood to break off with the knife. Don't really know what to look for. The few small pieces I was able to get out didn 't appear to be wet or even moist. What else do I need to look for, been working with metals most of  live. Thanks

[LilRichard]

Did you look at the shavings that you drilled out?  Dark?  Moist?  Rotting?

If it's all good, backfill with epoxy and slap a new motor on her.  One more test: with the motor tilted up, pace some weight (body weight) on the shaft of the motor.  Does the motor move?

[bondobill]

Looks like I got some problems in the transom. Used a 9/16" boring bit and bored out a hole next to the drain plug. Plywood appeared to be dark. Squeezed the shavings in a paper towels and it left a little moisture on the towel. Bored another hole below bolts that hold on the engine to transom, plywood was lighter in color but did show a little sign of moisture on the paper towel. I've attached some photos of the transom configuration and the stringers. Would it be possible to replace the plywood on the transom from the outside. I hate to cut into the floor again and the stringers appear to be in good shape. If I redo the transom I would like to fill it in and install a flotation bracket. What do you guys think. I am tight for room on the transom with the kicker motor and trim tabs. A full platform bracket looks like it would get in the way of trim tabs, and if I install a V6 four stroke to the existing transom configuration I would have to do something different with the kicker location because of the larger displacement of the four stroke. Any ideas you guys can give me would be appreciated. Once I get these photos figured out I will stop with these darn slide shows. http://s731.photobucket.com/albums/ww31 ... =slideshow

[RickK]

Bill, if you follow the directions in the LAST post in this link it'll walk you through using photobucket.

[slippery73]

I wouldn't try to cut your transom out from the outside. I would have to say that would be the most difficult way to replace it and probably the hardest way to tie back in to the boat. After seeing your pics I would check out some of the poured transom techniques, there's not really any point in putting wood back into a transom with the composites that we now have available. The pour transom is the only way to go, and its easy. I've done two different boats now two different ways and your setup will allow the easier of two methods and you can easily raise the transom to make it full height. Here's a link of a similar project, I did my small skiff transom with the chainsaw technique. I was skeptical at first but as shown here it was just that easy, rotten wood comes out pretty easy with the chainsaw and fiberglass doesn't. Read up on it and do some research, you should find plenty on it. There are other products than the seacast that are cheaper as well, I used Nidacore transom pour and Arjay brand transom pour, both were very similar same stuff different brand name.

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/materi ... 18939.html

Here is the seacast link  http://www.transomrepair.com

[kaptainkoz]

I agree with slippery. I am planning my transom repair and will do it some year. To me the way to go is the chainsaw method with the Nidacore pourable transom material... It just makes it so easy. To tear the a$$ of it off and wet/glass plywood and fix all those cuts is nuts when this method seems to be just as good if not better. If I had it my way... the only wood on my boat would be the teak trim. In case you are asking what the chainsaw method is.... you cut the top edge of the transom off just enough to expose the wood. Then you plunge a chainsaw inbetween the fore and aft fiberglass in effect removing just the wood. once you gut it out you have a "pourable mold". You then pour the nidacore in and it bonds and fills it all solid. reglass the cap, paint and your done.

[bondobill]

Thanks for the reply guys, anyway have decided to use the transom pour method on the transom. Decided not to fill the transom in completly or install a bracket. Would like to close up the opening about 8" to a foot on each side of motor. Closing it in a little bit on each side will free me up some room for bigger trim tabs also will move kicker motor further to the side and put it on a bracket. If i can get some photos up you can see i am pretty tight for room with the big opening on the transom. Have narrowed down my choices on the new outboard either a 250 4 stroke yamaha or a 250 4 stroke suzuki, like the yamaha because of the electronic shift so there would be no cables to contend with, suzuki only offers it on the 300 hp which i would like to install because of the extra power for the little bit of weight extra but don't know if i could get that one by the insurance co. Any one with some advice on pros or con on either would be appreciated. Sounds like the 250 suzuki has more torque than the yamaha. Also my boat has the scuppers on the side any pros or cons on moving them to exit transom, that way i could install the scuppers with the ball to help keep the water from flowing back in. Also any advice on which pour product to use Seacast or nidacore. Seacast seems to be very helpful i had e-mailed them about some advice as to how i could close in the opening and they got back to me the next morning. Anyway looks like i will be able to start in about a month on the transom, got a lot of work to do to the house and yard, it's been a long winter, just had our first day were it broke 70. I will post pictures and ask for lots of advice once started.

[slippery73]

As far as the transom pour goes I would go with whoever is most reasonable, for me that was nidacore by a long shot. They gave me a very good discount and some free sample materials when I placed my first order with them. I registered my business with them however,hence the discount. If you own a business send them your resale tax certificate or your business tax receipt. Or perhaps have a friend order that does....   For motors I'd make sure the yamaha is a true fly by wire electronic control. I know some of the electronic controls just connect into a servo box that still controls the motor via a standard shift cable, ie: more to go wrong. So if thats a deciding factor check into a little bit otherwise your still buying new shorter shift cables as well as the other components for the electric throttles. I hope the manufacturers have put some fail safes into the electrics because the morse ke4's suck.

[Capt. Bob]

Bill,
I'm biased but a full platform bracket would be my choice. The craft looks great and that platform can be had with a kicker plate so you can keep the little Yamy. It lengthens the boat (mine) by 26". It is IMHO the best mod I have made on my boat but trim tabs are right up there too.

Good luck and welcome aboard.