Ex-Aquasport/Wellcraft employee (Bob C)...

[Capt. Bob]

Someone step up here and dispute my logic but......

1999 rated for 300hp?

2000 150hp "Rude" 405 lbs +/-  http://www.outboardmotor.net/motors/146.html

800 lbs +/-  

Works for me.

[RickK]

Do I hear that white phone ringing????

[Capt. Bob]

How 'bout a new 300 E-Tec?  528lbs :o

 http://www.outboardmotor.net/motors/146.html

And for my pal CJ (GoneFission) :pirat:

http://www.outboardmotor.net/motors/146.html

OH Mama

[seabob4]

Do I hear that white phone ringing????

It's rung!! 8)   Rick, great to see you on reelboating the other day...

Alright, on to transoms.  The "poured foam" transom was virtually indestructable (IMHO), so the weak areas would be outboard of either side of the transom where it tied into the hull.

But I wouldn't worry about a thing.  We built tons and tons of 225/250 Explorers and Ospreys with twin OMC/Merc/Yam 150s.  Basically 1000 lbs. hanging off the back.  Based on that fact, I would hang a single 350 Verado (662 lbs.) without a worry.  The only motor I would feel a bit uncomfortable with is the 350 Yamaha.  The transom can handle the weight (804 lbs. dry), but it's "advertised" thrust increase, as it would relate to torque on the transom...well, I'd be leery...

All that being said, the '94-'05 225/250 Explorer/Osprey will happily take about any single outboard you hang on them.  I always wanted to see a twin 200 option on the 250, but...  

[RickK]

Do I hear that white phone ringing????

It's rung!! 8)   Rick, great to see you on reelboating the other day...

Nice board to hang out on too. Wiley runs a tight ship - compared to what he created "over there".   http://reelboating.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

I always wanted to see a twin 200 option on the 250, but...  

My buddy Dave has the '94 250 and it came with twin Merc 200s on a bracket.  Moves right along.

[seabob4]

My buddy Dave has the '94 250 and it came with twin Merc 200s on a bracket. Moves right along.

And they change to a "Euro-transom", lose 2' of useable cockpit space, and HP ratings drop by 50...

Hey, I love Aquasports, but I hate IDIOTS! :cry:

[Irish Rover]

Thank you all for the input.  I am thinking of putting a single Evinrude 250 off the transome and it sounds like it can handle it.

Justin

[seabob4]

Thank you all for the input.  I am thinking of putting a single Evinrude 250 off the transome and it sounds like it can handle it.

Justin

Piece o'cake!

[RickK]

SeaBob,
Here is a loaded question, maybe: do you think the mpg a boat gets would be better if you had twins vs a single?  
Example: my 230 weighs a lot loaded, probably in the 5-6k range with full fuel (140), full water (40), full cooler (160qt) and other stuff including me, wife and 55lb dog.  So we're heavy and being pushed by a 250 Yammie.  The motor runs sweet for being 19years old (knocking on wood) and when I'm cruising about 28mph, which seems to be the right sweet spot for her, she's burning about 16-19gph depending on conditions, trim, etc.
1) Would you think I would get better mpg with say, twin 130s or 140s?
2) Since my boat has the factory single on it, what would have to be done to mount twins on the transom and not change the existing "open" aft? (If I ever did this I think the first thing I would do is gut and rebuild the transom to make sure it's strong)

[seabob4]

SeaBob,
Here is a loaded question, maybe: do you think the mpg a boat gets would be better if you had twins vs a single?  
Example: my 230 weighs a lot loaded, probably in the 5-6k range with full fuel (140), full water (40), full cooler (160qt) and other stuff including me, wife and 55lb dog.  So we're heavy and being pushed by a 250 Yammie.  The motor runs sweet for being 19years old (knocking on wood) and when I'm cruising about 28mph, which seems to be the right sweet spot for her, she's burning about 16-19gph depending on conditions, trim, etc.
1) Would you think I would get better mpg with say, twin 130s or 140s?
2) Since my boat has the factory single on it, what would have to be done to mount twins on the transom and not change the existing "open" aft? (If I ever did this I think the first thing I would do is gut and rebuild the transom to make sure it's strong)

Rick,
Lets look at a couple of things first, in relation to your issues.  What you are looking at is increased fuel mileage with the same performance as your existing Yammi.  I don't really think you are after a top end gain in MPH, and I don't think you are that concerned with "get home" ability that a second motor would offer.  If you were, hell, with that transom you could probably throw a 50 kicker on her and almost plane!

So let's factor in 2 concepts of going to twins.  1) Increased drag, and 2) increased fuel burn, due to the second motor, as well as the increased drag.  Not a good thing.  Then there is the additional weight, oops, I forgot that one.  So far, for increased fuel mileage, we're not looking good.

Now let's look at props, and how they relate to performance.  If an engine is turning 3500, yet the prop is not right for the boat, you may burn 2g in 3 miles.  Yet the same engine, turning 3500, with the right prop, might burn 2g in 10 miles.  It's not about the motor, it's about the props.  But what if the same, lousy gph prop popped your boat on plane at 3000, and the good gph prop had trouble getting her over the hump at 5500?  What is your fuel burn at the times when your not at cruise?  And how often will these conditions occur?

Rick, many questions, and possibilities/probabilities raise their heads when it comes to twins VS a single.  Top speed?  Yes, you'll pick up some with twins.  Fuel burn?  Nope, you'll suffer.  Get home ability?  Yes, the second motor will get you home, but most boats your size won't plane on 1 motor, so why not just hang a good size kicker one her, make sure you have a portable gas can to isolate the fuel supply, and get a new 350 Verado for her?  Hell, I'll come down and do the install and rigging for you (for a price! ).  Sell the Yammi to chip in a bit towards the Vrod!

JMHO, sir.

Bob C

[RickK]

Thanks Bob.
I was hoping that twins adding up to more hp, say twin 130s or 140s would work less than the one big motor trying to plane and push the boat thus might burn less.

Now, looking at the pic above, twins would not fit in the existing notch nor would the new notch have to be as deep considering the vee at the aft of the boat and the shaft length.  So when these boats were made did the factory make x-amount for twins and x-amount for singles or did they mod the transom as required for new orders?  Maybe twins fit on the transom sides shown above ok with no mods?

Have a great, safe and Happy New Year.  I think I'm going to try and sneek the 170 out this morning - should be nice.

[seabob4]

Rick,
First, I hope you got out this AM.  Dressed properly, would have been a beautiful morning out there, toss a couple of greenbacks under the mangrove branches, have a nice fight with a hungry snook as the sun comes up, can't beat it!

I can't say for certain how the 230 was setup for the single/twin engine choices, but I can offer an educated guess.  Most likely the issue of shaft lengths was dealt with by varying the depth of the transom cutout.  Keep in mind that, even back then, 150s (the max motor in a twin install) were quite a bit narrower than your 250 Yammi, therefore they would have fit...hell, they had to, they were offered, weren't they?  Now, on the later versions, the 225/245/250 Explorers/Ospreys, twins required "alterations" from single installs.  On the 225, the steering cylinder was a transom mount, as there was no way to accomodate the front mount cylinder with out it hitting the sides of the splashwell before it reached hardover.   On the 245/250, a "relief" was molded into the swim platform, starboard side (ever notice that little 3-4" dip just adjacent to the splashwell?) to allow clearance for the front mount cylinder to swing all the way hardover.

Keep in mind that todays smaller motors, i.e. Suz, Yam, etec 130s, 140s, and 150s are far narrower still than motors back then.  Look at the 4-S Yam 150, for instance.  Inline 4, VERY narrow motor for a 150.  Would probably be perfect for your boat in a twin application, with only a second set of rigging having to be run, another Yam tach added, a twin binnacle, and a twin key switch assembly.  The steering cylinder is the same, so all you would need would be a tiebar.

You also might want to consider Etecs, as their weight advantage over the 4-strokes is a big plus.  Since you already have an oil tank, obviously you have the space.  BRP makes oil tanks that have 2, and even 3 ports, so you can feed both motors off of one tank.

So are you really considering doing this?  If so, do your research, check for leftovers, which is highly likely these days.  Suzuki right now is offering prices you just can't beat, and their 140s are excellent motors.  Plus my good friend is Suzuki's Eastern US Field Engineer (lives right down the road from me in Hudson Beach), so I have an excellent resource to draw from.

So, there is my input.  Hope it has helped.  And BTW, the wife and I will have procured all of our libations and foodstuffs by noon tomorrow, won't be setting foot off the property until Saturday.  Anybody would be crazy these days to go out on New Years Eve!  JMHO...

Bob C

[RickK]

I did indeed tow the 170 down to Venice, dropped her in the water and took off for Boca Grande.  I had never been there via boat so this was a new adventure for me.  The ICW is pretty narrow in a lot of spots on the way.  The trip through the ICW is roughly 23 miles one way and took me 70 minutes each way.  I would say there is about 15-20 minutes of idle zones each way. Cruised at 28 going down into the slight wind and 30 coming back. Used about 9 or 10 gallons.
Left the house at 8 and was back home at 1 - even with the 21 mile tow each way.  Sweet run and beat the front dipping into Fla.  Tossed a Cotie at the railroad tressle bridge just south of the Boca Grande bridge for a while - tide was just coming off a negative low - no action so I headed back.  
Now I know how long it takes and how much fuel I'll use so I can head down there on a whim.  Wouldn't save that much towing the boat all the way down there.  Maybe a little time.

Now, back to the question I posted.  I was just curious and may one day do the duals but it'll be when the 250 dies which I hope is not for a  looooong time - have higher priorities right now. I got layed off at work back in July just to be re-hired in August into a different position.  Been there so long (17 years) I forgot how to look for a job.    Anyway, that woke my wife and I up and got us analyzing ways to shed debt, which the only thing we owe on is our house.  So my lovely wife figured it out and on Jan 8 we'll be paying off the house.     Now if I get layed off I can work anywhere without fear of losing the roof over our head - let me practice.... "welcome to Walmart"  

I won't be moving one inch away from my home tonight either.  8)

[seabob4]

So I re-built the helm of my latest job yesterday, after building a new switch panel.  What do you think?



I'm thinking leave a little more service loop where the 12V+ feed turns upward on the port side of the panel...hmmm.

In case of those wondering what the yellow cable is, yellow has been designated by CE, ABYC, NMMA, and AUS/NZ as the color to use for 12VDC ground, to differentiate between DC ground and 120VAC Hot.  On newly built boats, chances are you won't see black wire anymore, even if you don't have 120V on board...

[RickK]

Looks good Bob