1977 222 rebuild

[penny]

I've finally got my 1977 222 in the yard on trailer.  This hull and cap are in excellent condition.  It was kept out of the water and covered. Casting deck seems very solid but as usual main deck rotted. I'm ready to start the dissection & inspection.The wires and cables are disconnected, the console and teak base are removed and the hatch over the fuel tank is out.  I'm getting ready to cut back the old rotted deck.  A couple of quick questions, 60 gallon aluminum tank is strapped down between stringers and foamed in around edges.  Please weigh in on the following
 
1.  Any idiosyncrasies about the 1977 model?  Do they tend towards better/worse on any common problems such as stinger glass work, rotten transoms, soaked foam, etc.?
2.  Tank (aluminum 60 gallon) looks original but has foam around it securing it.  Given new deck is going over, just replace or despite age, test in place it may be fine??  If replaced recommendations on type and source for new.
3.  Boat will be used for lots of commercial lobster diving usually hauling minimum of 8 tanks & associated gear.  Thoughts on new 150 4 stoke Yamaha for this boat?  Any changes in weight distribution for this?  Thoughts on filling in transom then mounting motor on some type of bracket that will facilitate diving?  Product or design recommendations?
 

Console is removed from deck and resting on bow deck, looks kinda cool there!

[LilRichard]

Here are is my $0.02 in regard to your questions:

1) No clue - sorry

2) I would most likely replace the tank if it is original - no reason to redo the boat, only to have it be a problem in two years.  

3) This is not an easy question - first - I think a 150 would push the boat well - especially if you're not out for high speed.  Someone here should have experience with that hull and HP combo.  

The second part about weight - these boats do not like to self bail once they get weight in the stern.  I would suggest trying to find the lightest motor possible - and also consider raising the floor height to help out with drainage.  Choice of bracket is at your discretion, but look for as much flotation as possible.  I think closing in the transom is a good idea.

[Mad Dog]

1.  Any idiosyncrasies about the 1977 model?  Do they tend towards better/worse on any common problems such as stinger glass work, rotten transoms, soaked foam, etc.?

I have a 1975 22-2 I am working on.  The '77 is probably very similar.  Check out these links on my rebuild.
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?t=14052 and

http://s175.photobucket.com/albums/w150 ... Aquasport/

The biggest issues I ran into were the previous patch jobs, and the saturated flotation foam.  

My '75 has foam filled trapazoid stringers.  Those are in good shape except I had to cut access holes to clean out the flotation foam.  Probobly removed 250 to 300 lbs of soggy foam.

The cap is attached with machine screws only which is a big help.

2.  Tank (aluminum 60 gallon) looks original but has foam around it securing it.  Given new deck is going over, just replace or despite age, test in place it may be fine??  If replaced recommendations on type and source for new.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?t=15342

This is a discussion about aluminum tanks, including other links on what you will probably find under the sole of your '77.

In my photobucket gallery you can see pics of my old tank.  It had a moderate case of crevase corrosion.  I decided to replace it since I am putting so much work into this project.  I don't want a bomb sealed under the sole.

3.  Boat will be used for lots of commercial lobster diving usually hauling minimum of 8 tanks & associated gear.  Thoughts on new 150 4 stoke Yamaha for this boat?  Any changes in weight distribution for this?  Thoughts on filling in transom then mounting motor on some type of bracket that will facilitate diving?  Product or design recommendations?

Your '77 probably has cut down transom.  Mine did too but I am building it up to full height transom and adding an engine bracket.  You may want to consider something similar because you can add platform to the bracket and give your divers more room to board the boat.  Most brackets are built with positive flotation so the matter of weight leverage offset.  

As far as engine weight check the manufacturers specs to see how much additional the 4-stroke will add.  Even if you do not replace your tank you can move it forward while the sole is out to change the balance of the boat.  Also, building storage lockers under the sole for scuba tanks can help as well.

Lastly (sorry),  using USCG calculation I learned that the AS 22-2 is rated for over 250 HP.  A 150 should do fine once you balance the weight. :)

[penny]

Thanks, Great way to spend time when you wake up at 4am wondering what exactly to do on the project.

soo today a zinc chromated but bedding in foam tank will get jerked out.

Regarding foam which I assume is within stringers, is best method of inspection careful drill within to check for moisture?  If it is dry, seal it and let it be?  Any chance by 1977 someone figured out a foam that doesn't absorb like a sponge? Also foam was filled in to outside of stringers.  Should that be routed out as well regardless of condition?

[LilRichard]

I would (test first) get rid of any foam not in the stingers as it most likely is soaked.  

Then check the stringers and see how they are.  You can find a few projects here where folks have dug the foam out by cutting part of the tops of the stringers off.  Take note though of how MJB did his - he left a lip to work with when reglassing the tops of his stringers.

[penny]

Main deck is now cut/torn out as well as 60 gallon aluminum tank and crappy thin barely glassed plywood tank basin.  Overall tank looked pretty good, most zinc chromate areas, a few small white corroded areas but I guess 30 years is enough?  Foam was dry, all viewable stringers and glass looks great.  I'm gonna drill a few pilot holes to check foam, particularly aft areas.  Nice weather for this kind of work.

[penny]

Removed skinny ply basin that was under tank, all glass to stringer still looks great.  Pilot holes in foam showing up all dry.  Transom is a different story. Glass lamination on inboard side of transom appears slightly thicker even than outside layer.  Given the drain 'trench' aft  and stringers inboard, is it reasonable to consider cutting the minimum necessary from outside of transom to clean out rotten core then build backup?

[Mad Dog]

Removed skinny ply basin that was under tank, all glass to stringer still looks great.  Pilot holes in foam showing up all dry.  Transom is a different story. Glass lamination on inboard side of transom appears slightly thicker even than outside layer.  Given the drain 'trench' aft  and stringers inboard, is it reasonable to consider cutting the minimum necessary from outside of transom to clean out rotten core then build backup?

Penny,

When you drilled the pilot holes, did you try any at the bottom of the stringers and toward the stern?  If the boat has sat in a dry place for a while the water will settle to the bottom of the stringer.  After I remover the sole on my boat I put it in a storage lot with black plastic covering the stringers.  After about 3 months in the South Texas heat the top 3 to 4 inches of foam were dry but the rest was progressively wetter all the way to the bottom.  

Also,  with the trapizoid stingers there is a trapazoid bulkhead built in front of the inboard engine compartment.  The bottom of that bulkhead is not tabbed to the bottom of the hull.  I guess it is left open for drainage and ventalation (required for inboard engines).  If you can reach under that bulkhead you may find that it is not sealed off.  That's what I discovered on my boat.  The foam on each stringer is exposed to any water in the bilge under that bulkhead.

If that area is dry and the foam closest to the hull is dry then you may be fine to leave the flotation you have.  I know my boat sat flooded for an extended period of time so the foam had lots of time to soak it up.  

I would suggest you consider all the work you are going to do on your restoration and consider the peace of mind knowing exactly what your boat has in it.  

As far as when the new foam came out you may want to ask the guys at Bateau2.com.  There is a lot experience with that sor of thing over there.

Cheer.

[penny]

Hey MadDog,
Holes I drilled were as low and far aft as possible, trailer front cranked up to have any water draining back, dry foam in stringers. My boat is an outboard model, no bulkheads but I plan to ad some with some nice little composite 'scraps' I have.  Advice re: placement of those is invited.

Regarding foam 'exterior' or stringers, I didn't want to remove if by '77 better foam was less inclined to soak up water.  I submerged a chunk and it seems to drain if there is somewhere for water to go.

[LilRichard]

I would place the bulkheads evenly spaced apart - you may wish to add 3-4 for added lateral stiffness.  Take into account you will want drainage at the bottoms of the bulkheads so that water will not stand.

[penny]

I found quite a few examples on the bateau site for a reference. Also does the small glass encased 'keel' board usuall get cut out?  I see a lot folks ad reinforcement in that area.  Mine looks a little dark and stormy in there but it isn't very big so may be inconsequential weight wise.

[LilRichard]

I would leave the keel support - no reason to remove it.  The vee in the hull is a strong point, but no reason to remove any extra support unless you have to.

[Mad Dog]

Penny,  its interesting where our boats are the similar and where they are different.

We have the same transom and stringers but mine has the trapazoid bulkhead where an inboard engine would have been mounted.  That probably explains why your stringer foam is dry and mine was soaked.  Check out my pics on the Bateau site to see what I mean.  

I agree with LilRichard, no need to cut the keel support out.  And be very happy you do not have to dig all the foam out of the stringers.

Question; Are you trying to dig the plywood out of your transom from the top?  I noticed your question to Shine about his transom rebuild and the photo above.  In the case where the outer skin is in good condition you should cut out the inside skin of the transom and rebuild from the outside in keeping the outer skin in place to minimize fairing for the finished product.  Does that make sense?  

[penny]

Delay of game for paperwork, etc. Finally picked up the tools to get the rest of inner skin and core of transom cut out.  10 minutes into it my Makita grinder made funny noises and started SMOKIN',  :cry: aaargh, that grinder isn't brand new but it doesn't have hardly any time on it.  Is it worth sending one of those in for repair or are they not worth the trouble???  I've got another in hand today but wouldn't mind fixing if it is worth the $ & hassle factor.

[LilRichard]

Penny-

Don't know if you have a Harbour Freight near you - but they sell cheap (read: disposable) tools.  You can get a grinder for $20-30 bucks - mine has lasted a LONG time.