91-250 CCP Refit

[DanB]

RickK,

Thanks. Wasn't sure if I just should clean up the hull side foam. You're right about it not hurting anything.
Hoping to get the the stringers tabs grinded down and replaced soon.
I'll look at using some composite board for the soles as you mentioned and resin soaked wood to replace the cap board. Thanks again for your advice.

[Ulysses485]

I think this was something they started doing to hulls in the 80s because I have seen it in a few. I don't think the 70s hulls had any foam that was added as "coring" in the hull sides. I would think this was just some added dampening and not completely necessary. However, it might be more trouble than its worth to gut it all out. I would agree with Rickk and cut the raw edges off and glass the open bottoms and anywhere water could seep in to prevent it from absorbing water (this is all assuming that it is currently dry). Regarding the stringers, I have a similar hull (240) I am redoing and I went through gutting the stringers from the tops. Its not all that bad after its said and done. There are variety of ways to do it. Check out Capt. Mikes rebuild of a 250. Although he went a different route, it might give you some ideas to bounce off. https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=15944.0

[DanB]

Ulysses485,
Thanks I really appreciate the input. I didn't know if the foam on the hull sides was common or not since all of the rebuilds I ran across were bare fiberglass. It's only the forward section that was sprayed with chop. The rest of the hull has what looks like a gelcoat coating over the foam on the hull side.
 I originally started to dig from cap on one of the front sections of the stringers and got stuck on the idea that I wanted to add additional tabs the inside of the stringers. The main reason was because all of the stringer tabs were delaminated and I was replacing all of the foam anyways. You're right though, after working on removing the foam it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I did cut the top off of the rear stringer sections to get the foam out and since they are wider and not as deep as the front it should go smoothly hopefully. I think if I had to do it again I would of just stuck with only removing the stringer caps.  I will definitely look at Capt Mikes rebuild. My laptop quit on me recently so I haven't been able to really sit down and go through some of the threads. Reading on the phone is a PITA for me. I should have that fixed by this week though. This my first rebuild so it's definitely a lot to learn but not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I think my problem was/is over thinking everything instead of keeping it simple. Thanks again

Dan

[Ulysses485]

Absolutely! I am happy to help. I do find it easier to upload photos directly from the phone to the gallery and then navigate on a desktop or laptop to grab the hyperlinks for the photos.

Its hard to tell what you have without some additional detailed photos. I've noticed in both my 240s that the fronts and backs did have areas on the hull sides that they coated in gelcoat (over raw glass and the tabbing to the transom...I assume for a little extra moisture protection to prevent delamination).

Regarding additional tabbing on the interiors, I started with the same thought but I am about 50/50 because access is really limited as you well know. Working inside the stringer boxes doesn't come easy. However, what I have found is that stringer tabbing didn't fail from anything as a fault of design but use and moisture. Stringer foam gets wet and the moisture held inside the stringers seep underneath the stringer "feet" and eventually delaminate the tabbing from the inside out. Sort of like standing in a shower with soapy feet. HAHAHA.. Additionally, I have found that there simply wasn't enough tabbing so the stress of flex from boating caused cracking of tabbing etc. This only got worst with time. With all that being said (while hopefully making sense) I am confident that the following would do the trick : Epoxy putty down inside the base of the stringer boxes after everything is removed and dry (to prevent moisture from ever getting to the base of the stringer), removing all the delaminated tabbing (outside of stringers), and tabbing with 2-3 layers of 3610 Biaxial material using polyester resin. Adding additional material up the sides of the stringer boxes would be helpful as well with the most important item being prep. I have a solid 4 hours of grinding with a flap disk inside my hull and just about 50% completed. I would recommend to get a pressure washer and clean up the glass as best as you can so you have a fresh start. It also makes quick work of removing debris and bits of foam left behind. Hope that helps. 

[RickK]

This is another good rebuild thread on a CCP
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13659.0

[DanB]

Ulysses485,

Thanks. Hopefully I can keep the momentum going while the weather permits.

[DanB]

RickK,

Thanks. Just started going through Mshugg's rebuild. Definitely a good read. 

[DanB]

Can't believe it's been a few months already. I had a few distractions along the way and priorities to take care of. To top it off it seems like every time I get started again the rain comes. BTW if I use a boating term/word incorrectly I apologize. I am still learning as I go. I decided to continue to post pics of my rebuild because this site has given me more information than I could hope for. By no means am I trying to come off as a seasoned expert or master builder. I know I will continue to make a few mistakes or bad decisions along the way.
 
If I had it to do over I would have left this section of the front stringers intact and not have cut them out. I originally got stuck on the idea it would make getting the foam out easier and faster so I could grind the area for the inside tabs. So I started by reinforcing the stringers with two layers of 1708 after grinding everything down. One on the inside and one on the outside to strengthen the stringer walls.



I decided to continue with my plan to add fillets and an additional 2 layers of 1708 to tab the inside of my stringers. The outside of my stingers have 3 layers of 1708 for tabbing. So a total of 5 layers of 1708 for tabs on each of the stringers walls. Should give my stringers plenty of strength.  I initially used Tampabaymike's method with the five inch fence post. It worked out but I decided to not leave them in place since I had a couple of voids to fill when adding the 4lb foam.
 
 

After I removed the fence post cover on the stringers. Still needed some additional leveling



I ended up just making molds for stringer caps so I could see the foam fill level better and to avoid over pouring foam and wasting foam.

[DanB]

Transom tear down. I used a 2x3 a few feet back connected to the hull sides so the transom did not flex. I also used a pipe clamp that went from the 2x3 to the transom (in the pics). I placed it there so I monitor if there was any flexing pressure while working on the transom.

 

Transom looks to have been rebuilt at some point. The bottom wood was rotting pretty bad



The sides of the transom were uneven. I would guess the filler was injected since it didn't fill the entire void area.  It looks like the same stuff was used to fill what looked to be an old rigging hole.



There was chopped mat bunched up on the side that I had to cut out

[DanB]

I know it looks rough but I was getting it done. I ended up grinding it down a little further than this, filled and leveled some of the remaining low spots. There were a few transom holes I had to fill and level as well.



I used two 3/4 inch coosa boards for the transom. I cut out the area of the garboard drain in the coosa so I could back fill it later with a thickened mixture. The idea is that hopefully there is less of a chance of water intrusion around the drain even though they say coosa doesn't absorb water.



For the transom outer skin I first added two layers of 1.5 chopped mat since I had to grind quite a bit out initially. I followed with 3 layers of 1708. Tabbing to the hull sides are at 12-8-4 inches. Instead of cutting the excess material from the bottom tabs to the hull for a cleaner look I decided against it and left it in place. I intentionally cut out the 1708 leading to the garboard drain to avoid using the pvc pipe method. I wasn't crazy about water potentially sitting on the side of the pvc pipe. In this pic the first coosa board is already laminated to the 1708. The CSM in the pic is two layers of 1.5 used to be sandwiched between the coosa boards.

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Second coosa board clamped in. I left about a half of an inch on the sides and bottom for adding epoxy fillets


 
Thickened epoxy fillets added around coosa. For the top of the transom I used thickened epoxy and two strips of CSM 2 inches before adding 1708 to cap the transom.

[DanB]

Used part of the section of transom stringers I cut out to make a mold with knees.



Used 4 layers of 1708 to make the stringers with knees. I reinforced the tops of the stringers and knees with additional strips of 1708.



Made the stringer caps for the aft section of the stringers using 1 layer of 1708.



For the stringer mold release I used cheap painter's plastic from Walmart.  Comes in roles I believe 9'x12'. It's thin but works great as long as you pull it off slowly.
 


Stingers in place and filled with 4lb foam. I ended up using right around 20 gallons to fill the entire stringers at temperature between 75-85 degrees.



Transom and knees done. Transom is capped with two layers of 1708. I also added two additional tabs to each side of the transom. 



Front stringers are capped off with 4 layers of 1708. I cut the top layer of 1708 to cover the top of the stringer tabs as well. I did this for the front and aft stringers.



Aft stringer's foam covered with 4 layers of 1708 with the top layer covering the top of the stringer tabs. Same as the front stringers

[RickK]

Wow, lots of progress.  Looks solid and stout. Good job.

[DanB]

Thanks RickK. 

[Tampa Bay Mike]

Just saw this thread. Looking great! Glad you found a way to make it work for you. Keep it up, the 250 is a tank when done

[DanB]

Tampa Bay Mike,

Thanks, Your rebuild threads have helped a lot. Thanks again for taking the time to post you rebuilds. Hopefully I can keep the progress moving forward.