91-250 CCP Refit

[DanB]

Started the tearing down process to see what I needed to work on. The tank access cover is soft where the topside tank was. What do you guys think about using 3/4" nidacore or similar to replace the wood in the cover? I don't have any experience with composite core board other than what I read online. Prices on marine wood seem to be comparable in range so I rather go the composite route. The tank is in pretty good shape considering it was manufactured in 89. The pitting seems to be in the areas where the straps were laid. The plate says it is a 117-gallon tank manufactured by Florida marine tanks out of Hialeah. I sent them an email but haven't heard anything yet. I guess they relocated manufacturing to NC from what the website says. Any advice/recommendation for a replacement tank?





Looks like the tank may have had a hard impact toward the front of the tank bedding. I imagine when it was on the trailer. The tank to bed has a 6-8" gap allowing it to slide back and forth. I guess they just patched it up with some fiberglass cloth and added piece of 2x2 wood to keep the tank from sliding.

[RickK]

Using composite as a coring is fine. You see the unsupported area under the tank lid. This usually allows for the lid to feel "springy", which makes people think they need to rebuild the lid. You probably do need to rebuild the coring but after you recor, if you still feel the springy effect, it's due to the unsupported width between the stringers. The area in front of the tank has the same unsupported width and springy feel. That area can be made into storage and people have made crossmembers to support the lid.

[Capt. Bob]

These folks provided tanks for the later Genmar built Aquas. They can build you just what you want and may have the cut sheet for your model. My 91 WAC had a FMT tank also and they (RDS) built my replacement.

https://rdsaluminum.com/marine-custom.html

PS..FMT built my 1984 CCP tank (factory installed) also. When I replaced the tank in 96, I bought it from FMT. They relocated some time ago. RDS is in Perry Florida about 50 miles east of where I'm living.

Good luck.

[DanB]

Thanks, RickK for the advice as always. The area where the secondary above deck tank sat was to the point that it felt like you could fall through the panel. That tank (55 gallon) was only secured by 4 small screws going into the main tank access panel. They were all loose/ threading stripped out. Probably from all the filled weight shifting. I imagine with the boat being 32 years old that is still a pretty good. When I finish all the repairs, I am not looking at resail value. Just the learning and enjoyment of it all. With that said I am probably going to redo the entire deck as well. Mainly because I don't know how many years the deck has left. I know it is going to be some work to get it done. Besides now is the time from me to do it while everything is already out, I figure. It will also give me a chance to look over the bilge and stinger area to make sure everything is good.





Now just have to reglass. I will try and keep posting pictures along the way.

[DanB]

Capt. Bob, I just called RDS hoping they could build the tank. They are only 2 hours away from where I live outside of Jacksonville. I called and they are back logged for the next few months, so they aren't taking on any custom orders according to the sales dept. Just my luck. Going to reach out FMT again. Ultimately, I will look at finding something similar in the 120 Gallon range and modifying the tank holding belly/bed area if it is more cost effective. I drove up to Fiberglass Supply Depot in Fort Pierce yesterday and was hoping to check out Marine Connections Liquidators, but they are closed on Mondays. Will call them shortly to see if they have anything in the range. I will contact Moeller out if curiosity as well. The tank I have may have a couple of years left but some of the pitting is close to a 1/16 in depth. My understanding is the aluminum tank wall thickness is 1/8th (.125). No big deal either way. Something will work out eventually. Thanks

[Capt. Bob]

You can also try here.

https://www.alloymetalworks.com/

Phil (if he is still around) is an early member of the Forum and has made quite a few tanks for members. Shipping may be a sticking point but it doesn't hurt to get a quote to see what's out there.

Good luck.

[DanB]

Thanks, Capt.Bob, I will try and get in touch with them as well.

[DanB]

 Few more random pics. Decided to use 1/2-inch Nida core honeycomb panels to replace the wood for the fish box and tank access covers. Going to have to reinforce the areas where I need to use mounting screws.



Removed most of the hardware and electronics.



Built a 12 foot hoist to pull the cap intact. Working by myself so I had to come up with something to pull the cap. So far, its good to go.



Cap is supported by chain hoist (2) and 4x4s to balance the cap I also added some heavy duty rachets for additional support to the center and aft. The 2x4s under the fish box and tank bed are just to keep it from swaying in the wind. Been on the hoist a couple days and no problems with buckling or any form issues. 

[DanB]

Hull pics. Overall, the foam is not in bad at all. There are a couple areas where water was present in the foam but who know how long its been out of water drying out. I planned on replacing it all when adding 1708 to the stringers anyways so it no big deal.



Not sure why this section was cut out. What is the putty like material used in the gap between the stringer and the deck to sit on? Is it structural putty or General-purpose putty?



All of the stringer tabs/filets are delaminated on both sides. Plan is to cut them out where they start separating and grind them down to redo the whole thing.

 

Originally just cut the cap to remove the foam from the stringers and decided it will be easier to get at removing the side since I have to redo the filets.



Going prep and finish the bow stringers and foam before moving on to the aft section and transom.

 

[RickK]

A tip to help you - you should cut the new core edges at a 45 to make it easier for the glass cloth to make the bend. 1708 doesn't like to make a 90 degree bend.
Otherwise, you've made great progress - the bonding putty is brutal to get off but if you use the right grinding wheel, it'll come off easier.

[Ulysses485]

DanB,
Looks like you've made some great progress! Coming along nicely. These are some of the hardest steps in my opinion. I haven't yet used the honeycomb type material (only used coosa so far) but have seen it used quite a bit so I picked up a bunch of it for my projects. I would agree with Rickk regarding the 45 corners and would add that filling the voids at the end with a pre made putty is what I find to be most common. Be careful with cutting too much of the stringer system out because unless you have it in a cradle, you could run the risk of loosing the hull shape and get a hook in it. But let me ask you, what is your plan for the stringer system. Most everyone keeps that have rebuilt with these trapezodial stingers have reused them with good results. Not to scare you but just keep it supported down the keel and level at least port to starboard and you should be fine. Thanks you for sharing!!

[DanB]

RickK,
Thanks for the tip. I will definitely do that when I start replacing the deck. I already glassed the fuel tank panel. I used 1.5 oz CSM. I used 1 layer to bond the nida core to the panel and 2 layers on top of the Nida core. For the edges of the Nida core I just cut 3/4 in strips of CSM to cover the edges. It workout fine but your tip is definitely the better option for future glassing. I felt 1708 might be a little heavy on the deck panel. The panel turned out pretty solid with CSM.

[DanB]

Ulysses485,
Thanks! I am not sure if what i am doing makes sense or is the wrong or right way to handle it My plan is to reuse the cut-out section of the stringers (mainly for the form) but with additional layers of 1708 and new tabbing. I cut them out that way for 2 main reasons. The first being that I want to add support and tabbing (1708) to the inside of the stringers. The second was to make it easier to remove all of the foam and not waste a bunch of time trying to dig foam out from the cap. I am not sure if all or part of the foam needs to be fully replaced since I haven't accessed it all. I know in the aft section of the stringers part of the foam was exposed from PO cutting into the stringers and the stringers being delaminated. I just rather redo it and not have to worry about it or have to pull everything back out in the future to address it. I am going to use a thickened mixture for the base of the stringers as well. I left the foam and stringers from the midsection to the aft intact to help avoid any potential flexing in the hull. I also have the hull supported from the outside. My computer is acting up so I am adding pics when I can.

[DanB]

A few questions/ thoughts

There's about 1/2" of foam on the hull sides. Should I just remove it all? Not sure what the outer coating over it is. If I remove it all to bare fiberglass should I leave just bare fiberglass?



I plan on replacing the foam removed with 2lb foam between the stringers and hull side once cleaned up and I redo the stringer tabs. Would it make sense to to add additional support from the stringers to the hull side since the stringers are just foam filled and not wood or composite? I am just trying to make sure I don't miss anything when I get around to building back up.



Any recommendations on the type of putty to use for bonding the stringers to the bottom of the deck? The putty that was on there had a gelcoat look and smell when I was removing it. The gap between the deck and stringers is around an 1"or so thickness. Should it be a structural putty or will a GP putty work?



What would you recommend for replacing the plywood sections used to secure the cap screws on to the hull?



Thanks

[RickK]

A few questions/ thoughts

There's about 1/2" of foam on the hull sides. Should I just remove it all? Not sure what the outer coating over it is. If I remove it all to bare fiberglass should I leave just bare fiberglass?

Except for some sound deadening, I'm not sure why the foam is there.  Does it hurt anything? No. It is covered with some cropped glass shot on with a chopper gun. I would grind down the raw edge and move on.

I plan on replacing the foam removed with 2lb foam between the stringers and hull side once cleaned up and I redo the stringer tabs. Would it make sense to to add additional support from the stringers to the hull side since the stringers are just foam filled and not wood or composite? I am just trying to make sure I don't miss anything when I get around to building back up.

The stringers were made outside of the boat and then glassed/glued into the hull. You definitely have delam of the added glass that tied the stringers in. I would cut off the loose glass and then grind to fresh and re-tie it in. You want those stringers secure.

Any recommendations on the type of putty to use for bonding the stringers to the bottom of the deck? The putty that was on there had a gelcoat look and smell when I was removing it. The gap between the deck and stringers is around an 1"or so thickness. Should it be a structural putty or will a GP putty work?

The bonding putty is poly based so it smells the same as gelcoat. You can build up the gap between the sole and the stringer with composite board, plywood, whatever you want.  If you use wood make sure you soak it with resin and cover it with glass. I used thickened epoxy to attach/glue my sole down. 

What would you recommend for replacing the plywood sections used to secure the cap screws on to the hull?



Thanks

I would use plywood again. It's lasted all this time and still looks in good shape. Just seal it before glueing it to the hull side.