Fuel not coming out of fuel pump

[dmoney619]

We have gotten a 98 200 with a johnson 130hp on it. The boat had been sitting for 6+ years in south texas. We are trying to start the boat now and it fired up when shooting starter fluid into it. we can't get it to run by itself. it has the VRO fuel pump, but looks to be capped off at the oil line. No oil reservoir to be found on the boat. When we took the outgoing fuel line off the pump, there is no fuel pumping out when we crank the motor over. Shouldn't there be fuel pumping out? We took apart the pump and both diaphragms looked perfect. Not sure how much pressure is needed from the pulse line. When I put my finger over the hose, it is not much pressure pulsing. Could this be clogged? What is the pressure supposed to be if I was able to measure it? if it is clogged, can I just shoot some air into it to try and clear the hose?

Thanks for your time

[RickK]

I think that the VRO has been bypassed like the one on my old OMC. I premix oil in the fuel tank.

If you want to post a pic when you talk about your boat, which you should, follow the instructions here http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=12725.0  - don't attach them - you are limited by file size and guessing what size to make the file will usually reduce the pic too much. Uploading them into your "member gallery" is better for viewing and the system takes whatever size you upload and resizes it to the best size.
Spend a few minutes to absorb the instructions. It's really easy. Remember if using a phone to take pics, to hold the phone horizontal with the lens to the left.

[dmoney619]

Ok - Good to know - I don't think it was resized though
Thank You

[dmoney619]

When we took the outgoing fuel line off the pump, there is no fuel pumping out when we crank the motor over. Shouldn't there be fuel pumping out?

[RickK]

The VRO is a Variable Ratio Oil Pump - it mixes oil and gas inside the engine and can change the mix rate dependent on the rpm of the engine. The VRO are not very reliable so most people bypass the VRO and premix the oil in the fuel tank.
That being said, you mentioned there is no sign of an oil tank inside the engine cowling or external. I would guess if nothing is coming in, nothing can come out.
I assume you traced the fuel line from the tank to the bulb and into the engine.

[dbiscayne]

No fuel coming out of the pump when cranking?
1. Take off the fuel line going into the pump, squeeze the primer ball until fuel comes out. Hold the primer ball vertically with the exit side up when doing this it helps the primer ball check valve do its thing.
If the boat has been sitting for that long you're most likely going to have air in the line, and I've never had much luck with the pump overcoming that.
You should also replace the fuel/water separator filter while at it.
2. If #1 fails, then you could have a faulty primer ball. Again if its been sitting that long... Replace as necessary.
3. Still fail, then you could have a clogged check valve at the fuel tank outlet fitting where the 3/8 fuel line connects. Theres a spring and check ball in there to keep fuel in the line from draining back into the tank. They tend to corrode over time and get clogged with powdery aluminum.
4. If you haven't already I'd recommend replacing the fuel lines. This being a 1998 boat it could have non-ethanol rated fuel lines. I've seen them fall apart from the inside with no visible signs of failing on the outside. The inner liner becomes soft and collapses when the fuel pump is sucking on it, thus preventing fuel from moving.

Also check for any cracked fuel lines, especially at the hose clamps, that could let air into the line. That'll mess with the fuel pumps ability to pump like it should.

[dbiscayne]

also check on a parts site like Crowley Marine that shows a fuel pump schematic, theres a part in the fuel pump schematic called a Pulse Limiter. Haven't ever had to deal with this myself so can't say if it's part of your issue or not?
Also shows up in the Cylinder/Crank Case diagram, plus a 'check valve assembly' under part 13.

https://www.crowleymarine.com/

Finally, theres an additional smaller in line filter under the cowling, should replace that too.

[dmoney619]

Thank You for the reply and help.

The air primer ball seems to be working great. When we take the top outgoing fuel line off of the fuel pump, you can squeeze the primer bulb and fuel comes out of the pump. The primer bulb gets hard as well.

We have checked the line from the tank and also replaced the fuel/water separator filter.

We have removed all lines after the fuel pump and checked them. One to the plastic manifold connected to four lines to carbs. They seem to be fine. With these all connected, you can squeeze the primer bulb and fuel will come out at the ends that were connected to the carbs.


I am still wondering about the fuel pump itself. Shouldn't gas be squirting out when cranking the engine over?

Is there a minimum air pressure/vacuum needed for the fuel pump to operate correctly? I was hoping to test the line from the crankcase/Pulse Limiter on the bottom of the engine to the bottom of the fuel pump for the correct vacuum/pressure reading. I think I can borrow a vacuum gauge to do this and check on that hose line.

One other thing, with the primer bulb pushing fuel out of the top of the fuel pump, I thought I should be able to manually pump fuel to the engine via the primer bulb, and keep it running momentarily. I was not able to get the engine to run by this method.

[dbiscayne]

One other thing, with the primer bulb pushing fuel out of the top of the fuel pump, I thought I should be able to manually pump fuel to the engine via the primer bulb, and keep it running momentarily. I was not able to get the engine to run by this method.
that is correct - you should be able to fill the carbs float bowls with fuel just using the primer ball, the engine should run for a short time, 5 seconds? really not sure if you could keep it running by squeezing the primer ball in effect replacing the pump w the primer ball.
If you haven't rebuilt the carbs or at least taken the float bowls off the carbs and cleaned them out nows the time. The float inside the float bowl is attached to a small 'valve' (see item 10 & 18 in the link below) and moves it open & closed. Its common for this valve to get stuck closed if the outboard sits for a long time, fuel turns to varnish in the carbs and this piece no longer moves freely like it should. If its stuck in the down position you'll get no fuel into the engine thru the carb. If the jets are clogged the same way, especially the hi speed jets, you could blow the engine due to lack of oil getting to one cylinder.

https://www.crowleymarine.com/evinrude/oem-parts/outboard/1997/e130txaum/carburetor-linkage

I am still wondering about the fuel pump itself. Shouldn't gas be squirting out when cranking the engine over?
Not sure, you'd think it would, but it might take some actual combustion to get the pump to pulse enough to do that.

[Capt. Bob]

Light reading about the pump.

https://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html

[dmoney619]

Nice article about the pump. I was hearing the same things about the VRO systems. I think the previous owners must have believed the hype and removed the oil section. We just need to get it started and able to idle before we get to thinking about other things. I am going to check some more of the fuel lines and take a look at the carbs tonight.

Thanks for your time and helpful advice

[dmoney619]

We have got the engine running and idling now. We took the carbs off and cleaned and rebuilt them. At of now, we needed starter fluid shot into carbs to get started. Once it has idled for five minutes, we can start with just a quick key click.
I want to be able to use the primer solenoid for the next cold start.
We ordered a new primer solenoid and hooked it up. When we tested the primer solenoid, it clicks, but it does not shoot any gas out of the two smaller hose barbs. Isn't the whole point of the primer solenoid to shoot gas out into the hoses that go underneath of the four carbs? We replaced the fuel lines with new ones and are now wondering why the solenoid clicks but doesn't shoot any gas out.

[dbiscayne]

The primer solenoid just opens a path for fuel to flow through but doesn't actually do the squirting, need to be cranking the engine over while activating the solenoid (push in the key?) and let the pump push the fuel through the opened path.

[dmoney619]

Thank You for the reply - That will definitely help me.
So I should just hold it down while cranking the motor over.

I saw a video where the guy said to hold it for ten seconds and then crank the motor - guess he wasn't doing anything by doing that. Or maybe he had a different fuel pump.

Thanks again

[dbiscayne]

So I should just hold it down while cranking the motor over.

thats right. I usually stab the key in & out but probably doesn't matter. The red valve on the solenoid should be pointing towards the body of the solenoid, that lets it work in its normal way letting fuel through when you give power to it. If the valve is pointing away from the body it opens the solenoid all the time so if it quits working you can bypass the electronic part - start the motor - then turn the valve to the normal position again so you don't run too rich.

Dangar Marine has a lot of great instructional videos-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrBj2p4A8xQ