Brad's '84 175 redeck

[RickK]

Usually 16 ga stranded is enough for low draw circuits (like LED lights). Greg's wire is a good source online and Greg personally fills every order promptly They have all the heat/glue type connectors too. They have pre-made battery cables too at many lengths (even have cables with one end pre-made and the other not). I assume you'll put the batteries inside the console and then where will the battery disconnect be - inside the console?  If I remember correctly the cable gauge from the battery to the engine was 4 ga and it was only 4-6 ft.
My 170 originally had the battery in the back of the boat by the transom in a plastic box. The cable from the battery to the starter was 4ga. When I rebuilt the 170 I moved the battery plus made room for 2 more (trolling motor) inside the console (I moved the fuel tank that was in the console, to under the sole). I ran 2/0 from the battery back to the cabinet in the corner and landed that on a terminal block in the cabinet. My thinking is to use a large gauge wire so that the battery "seems" to be in the back of the boat near the engine.
So the thought is if you want to power the starter in the engine from the console, use 2/0 so there is no loss and land it on a terminal block. You have some flat area on the last 3 feet of the liner that you could build out or figure out how to land the cable from the console and to attach the cable to the engine. Here is what I did - I built cabinets that I ran the pipes to that carried all the cables. I made cabinets on both rear corners.


I ran the battery cables to a terminal block and from the terminal block I ran 4ga to the engine - works great.


I ran cables, hoses and wires from the corners to the engine, whether electric or fuel, like this


You have to sit down and think through what you need to route and how you're going to route them. You might need to create, like I did, a way to get the stuff from the console to the rear.

[BradC]

Thanks for all the inputs guys.

Next few questions all around the glass side of things:
1. Marine.com are selling a product called Ebond 1285, epoxy resin, 5 gallon -$180. Anyone dealt with them before or has any feedback on the product?  ... or is this a potential get what you pay for?
2. Resin - at what stage do you apply subsequent layers iro tackyness ... or do you wait until the previous layer has completely set
3. follow on to #2 ... considering... new deck using Nidacore, top - 3 layers, first 2 layers Poly Resin with uppermost level using Epoxy resin. Bottom - 2 layers both Poly. 1708 being the glass. Yes, No or absolute madness?

My calculations call for 40 yards of 50” wide 1708, 20 Gallons of mixed resin so need to be as fiscally prudent as practical. Thx

[RickK]

My .02.
1) Shipping will be very expensive so if you can find your supplies locally, you'll save a lot of money. I spent a lot of money (hundreds of $) on shipping just shipping epoxy across the state of FL.

2) Poly resin tries to harden from the minute it is created, so buying big qty (i.e. 5 gal) might save you some money, but if you don't use it up quickly, you'll be tossing it because it'll get lumpy. Epoxy will remain good a long time (not sure if forever, but I have some old epoxy and it's still liquid) but its expensive.
We have a lot of rebuilds that were done completely in poly. Poly hardens quickly once catalyzed (I think there is a type of polyester that doesn't harden right away, I don't remember the name but Capt Matt used it, it's missing wax I think). Epoxy takes a long time (sometimes days) to harden as long as you get it out of the bucket once mixed with hardener. Laminating wet on wet is the best way to get a project done so you're not waiting and having to scruff up the previous layer before adding the next. Since poly hardens so fast, wet on wet is usually not possible.

3) What will you be top coating the inside of the boat with? Gelcoat? or Paint? If Gelcoat, then you should stay with poly for resin. If paint, you can go with either resin. Nidacore is fine but I would stick with just one resin on each side, no reason, even monetarily, to mix resins. I used epoxy to laminate the bottom of my deck and since I was going to use gelcoat inside the interior of the boat, I used polyester for the 2 layers of cloth on the top.

[BradC]

Thanks Rick - it's a real comfort to know there's a backup team a few clicks away with no ulterior motives in their advice!

[mshugg]

My .02.
1) Shipping will be very expensive so if you can find your supplies locally, you'll save a lot of money. I spent a lot of money (hundreds of $) on shipping just shipping epoxy across the state of FL.

. . . I don't remember the name but Capt Matt used it, it's missing wax I think). . . . Since poly hardens so fast, wet on wet is usually not possible.

Rick’s discussion of resins is spot on.  And shipping is often a killer.  I think that he’s talking about laminating resin as opposed to finishing resin.  The surface of laminating resin will remain tacky for an extended period of time offering the advantages of wet on wet within about a 24 hour period.  To reach full cure, laminating resin must be isolated from the air for the surface to cure,so the final layer must be covered with wax, PVA or waxed gelcoat. 

Finishing resin has wax in it, so it cures fully without extra steps, but it must be de-waxed and sanded between layers.

[RickK]

Thanks Mike, I forgot the name of the type of poly resin.    Capt Matt did his entire rebuild of his FB with it. I saw the boat a couple years later and he said it was rock solid. So there are possibilities that are not the norm (I think Matt's rebuild was the only one that I remember on this site that used laminating poly).

[Tampa Bay Mike]

Rick - I used laminating resin and unwaxed gelcoat for my build. FGCI sells "sanding aid" that is pretty much just the wax that you can add to the final coat so you don't have to buy two different types of resin. Worked great!

Brad - what is the thought process behind the final layer being epoxy? Is it just to get a full cure?

[BradC]

Rick - I used laminating resin and unwaxed gelcoat for my build. FGCI sells "sanding aid" that is pretty much just the wax that you can add to the final coat so you don't have to buy two different types of resin. Worked great!

Brad - what is the thought process behind the final layer being epoxy? Is it just to get a full cure?

Good question Mike ...  based purely on the subjective perception that Epoxy Resin is “better” than poly really .... both from a structural and ease of use perspective ... but unless an unknown Aunt suddenly passes and bequeaths me a small bank soon, the planned Epoxy component is being slashed to tabbing elements only anyway ... which is using it for it’s designed purpose ... thanks for the steer

[BradC]

First of many packages arrived during the week ... happened to be on the wife’s birthday so she was a tad confused when she opened it ... on the couch again

[BradC]

Glass, vinyl, Nida, diveny amoungst other goodies should be arriving next week ... which leads to the next question:

With the change to the COG due to fuel tank replacement, facelift to the console, losing all the saturated foam etc etc ... what is the best method to identify the console’s new placement?

Thanks all
Brad

[BradC]

The Brains Trust ... Seadek, anyone have experience and/or opinion on it as an alternative non-slip option? Will it stand up to cleaning off of blood and guts (i.e. Will it be stained by either organic material or chemicals)? Generously proportioned bodies wearing flat-soled shoes/boots? Will the backing adhesive (3M product I believe) stand up to NE temps - specifically the lower end of the spectrum?

Any and all insight appreciated

PS Site search came up blank using Seadek/seadeck

[Tampa Bay Mike]

I wish I had the perfect answer for the console placement but it's hard to say exactly as each boat is a little different. There are a lot of variables - engine weight, setback from the transom, fuel tank size, normal load, etc. The best thing would probably be to keep it close to where it was from the factory especially if you have the tank moved forward. I can say that my 22 is acts very different with a light load vs a full 55 gallon tank and five people.

As for Seadek, I have heard a lot of good things about its durability down here in Fl but most people that I know have only had it for a few years. I'm curious how it holds up long term.

[mshugg]

Unless you’re changing something, the best starting location for console is the original location.  Remember waterlogged foam and failed fuel tank are deviations from the original design, and replacing wet foam with dry, etc is moving closer to original design intent.

Now if you’re changing something, heavier motor, jackplate etc, then it’s worth considering relocating heavy objects.  There’s a discussion of this over on Classic a Seacraft that includes a mathematical approach to shifting weights.  http://www.classicseacraft.com/community/showthread.php?t=28289

As for Sea Deck, lots of discussion pro and con.  I’m going to use instal it for coamimg bolsters and a cooler pad, but not my floor.  It’s too much work getting fish blood and bait slime out of non skid.  On the other hand, if I fished mostly catch and release with lures in my bare feet I’d consider sea deck.

[BradC]

Unless you’re changing something, the best starting location for console is the original location.  Remember waterlogged foam and failed fuel tank are deviations from the original design, and replacing wet foam with dry, etc is moving closer to original design intent.

Now if you’re changing something, heavier motor, jackplate etc, then it’s worth considering relocating heavy objects.  There’s a discussion of this over on Classic a Seacraft that includes a mathematical approach to shifting weights.  http://www.classicseacraft.com/community/showthread.php?t=28289

As for Sea Deck, lots of discussion pro and con.  I’m going to use instal it for coamimg bolsters and a cooler pad, but not my floor.  It’s too much work getting fish blood and bait slime out of non skid.  On the other hand, if I fished mostly catch and release with lures in my bare feet I’d consider sea deck.

Thanks Mike, all valid and appreciated.

... mshugg - how simple the actual answer is, thank you for pointing out what should have been obvious   

[RickK]

Now the magical question....did you take measurements of where everything was originally