Getting ideas for my upcoming work on 170

[wingtime]

Here is some unsolicited advise... ditch the NGK plugs in your motor.  Lots of people and parts guys are under the impression the NGKs are better for Johnson/ Evinrudes.  In this case they simple are not, in fact they can make things worse.  Run the mfg recommended plug which should be a Champion QL78YC.  They are cheap and they work the best with the late 90s early 2000 carbureted J/E.  I think most Walmarts carry them for about $3.  Depending on how many hours you run, replace them every year or two.


As for the scuppers get yourself a set of TH marine ball scuppers.  I have them on my 170 and know several other members that have them.  They are the best ball scuppers you can get.  Don't bother with the duck bill scuppers.  wast of time and money.  Also don't put a bilge pump on the deck, All you need is one below deck in the bilge.  The 170 is a self bailing design and with a set of ball scuppers the deck will drain on it's own.  Try to carry as much weight forward as you can.

Also I like the hatch in front of the console. Before you installed it you did seal the wood core with epoxy right?  5200 alone is not enough to prevent water intrusion into the core.

[minionsram]

Here is some unsolicited advise... ditch the NGK plugs in your motor.  Lots of people and parts guys are under the impression the NGKs are better for Johnson/ Evinrudes.  In this case they simple are not, in fact they can make things worse.  Run the mfg recommended plug which should be a Champion QL78YC.  They are cheap and they work the best with the late 90s early 2000 carbureted J/E.  I think most Walmarts carry them for about $3.  Depending on how many hours you run, replace them every year or two.


As for the scuppers get yourself a set of TH marine ball scuppers.  I have them on my 170 and know several other members that have them.  They are the best ball scuppers you can get.  Don't bother with the duck bill scuppers.  wast of time and money.  Also don't put a bilge pump on the deck, All you need is one below deck in the bilge.  The 170 is a self bailing design and with a set of ball scuppers the deck will drain on it's own.  Try to carry as much weight forward as you can.

Also I like the hatch in front of the console. Before you installed it you did seal the wood core with epoxy right?  5200 alone is not enough to prevent water intrusion into the core.

I reckon I am a bit gunshy of the champions from the old days of getting bad ones out of the box when doing tune ups on the old cars. Ill give them another try. I have one TH marine and one flapper on the boat right now trying them out. the boat sits a bit low in the rear and both of them seep. and as far as the hatch goes I havent sealed with epoxy yet but have plans to. Im ordering some epoxy, glass and other stuff for a few projects, when that gets here I plan on sealing it.

[JimInPB]

The pump that I used on deck happens to be a Sahara S500, which is an inexpensive one that is rated for a fairly shallow minimum water depth.  It seems to be on par with Atwood or Rule.  Some people seem to think that the Rule pumps are a premium name brand, but my experience has told me that they are no better.  Any pump that fits in there should be fine.  I mounted mine on velcro to make it easier to clean that area after a day of bloody tuna fishing.

I agree with the other poster that said the NGK plugs don't make an old crossflow run any better than a properly selected Champion.

I am curious to know why someone might think that 5200 is not a sufficient sealant in an area where structural reinforcement is not also needed.  I've used it for years to plug screw holes below the water line & have not yet had evidence of leakage.

[boatnamesue]

I am curious to know why someone might think that 5200 is not a sufficient sealant in an area where structural reinforcement is not also needed.  I've used it for years to plug screw holes below the water line & have not yet had evidence of leakage.

Respectfully, you've overlooked a few key points made by the member of this thread and the member responding (wingtime).   The area they were conversing about is a deck hatch, cut out by member.  Wingtime suggested using epoxy to seal the core before installing the hatch.   5200 is a sufficient sealant, as well as used for structural reinforcement.   However, structural reinforcement is not required, and 5200 is not indicated for the amount of surface area that requires sealing the deck core.  Its the wrong sealing substance to use in this case.   

[JimInPB]

I pulled up the speck sheet that 3M publishes for 5200.  I did not see a limit on the recommended area that could be covered by that material.  One of the suggested uses from the manufacturer is the installation of porthole frames.  This deck hatch application would seem to me to be very much like a, slightly larger than average, porthole frame.  Am I missing something?

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/158782O/adhesive-sealant-5200-tech-data.pdf

I am not saying that glassing in the edges of the deck hole would be anything other than an excellent choice.  I am just asking why 5200 would not also be acceptable.

[boatnamesue]

Top of the last page of the document you referenced...The way I read this is 5200 can be used for "bonding and sealing of a porthole frame" to _____ (fill in the blank).  Its primary use is as a bonding agent, the result of which provides a seal.  But 5200 is not used for the sole purpose of sealing wood core.  And that's what was suggested to the operator....seal the core with epoxy before bonding the hatch to the deck. 

Would 5200 do the job?  Probably, sure.  But why use it.  It's incredibly difficult to manipulate.  And for this application you'd have to use a putty knife and work it into the wood core.  I can just imagine the mess.  Epoxy can be mixed to a specific density, allowing for a much easier application.  Once the core has been sealed, then bond the hatch to the deck.  But I wouldn't even use 5200 in this case.  The hatch doesn't bear weight, doesn't need flexibility, etc.  Silicone will do the job.   

[wingtime]

5200 is an excellent sealant but it's not a water barrier. I have seen plenty of screws etc sealed with 5200 that have leaked and failed over time leading to deck and transom rot. The best way to install that hatch is to use epoxy and 5200. In a perfect world you would drill the screw holes oversize and cut back the exposed deck core in the cut out. Then coat the exposed core with epoxy and then fill with an epoxy filler. This seals the core from ever having a water intrusion. Then you  redrill the screw holes to the proper size. Install the hatch using 5200 to seal the screw and create a gasket to keep the deck water tight.

[Capt. Bob]

I tried mounting a Sea Drive on a brand new 25’ Express Fisherman back around 1984 or 85.  That was a big mistake.  The boat did not like the weight being that far back at all.   

Interesting,
I agree that a bracket on a 17' requires a good deal of planning but I am a little surprised that the 25XF didn't handle it well. I ran one on my 84 CCP (222) and it performed very well. I would have guessed that the nose heavy XF would have tracked and performed very well also....

Oh well.

[minionsram]

I tried mounting a Sea Drive on a brand new 25’ Express Fisherman back around 1984 or 85.  That was a big mistake.  The boat did not like the weight being that far back at all.   

Interesting,
I agree that a bracket on a 17' requires a good deal of planning but I am a little surprised that the 25XF didn't handle it well. I ran one on my 84 CCP (222) and it performed very well. I would have guessed that the nose heavy XF would have tracked and performed very well also....

Oh well.

Good thoughts for sure. But I am thinking of doing some pods on each side of the motor. a set of flotation pods and then a small 6'' bracket or jackplate. Have either of yall done the pods or seen how they work on the 170's? They would be likened to the fish boxes you could get on them but larger and filled with foam on the bottom with a hatch on the top of them.

[wingtime]

I have a 6" Bob's machine manual jack plate on my 170. Came that way when I bought it. I would not recommend mounting the motor any further back than that. If I don't have my trim set right she will porpois some. One thing I like about it is that it gets the rigging out of the back of the boat just enough to free up the aft cockpit area.

[minionsram]

I have a 6" Bob's machine manual jack plate on my 170. Came that way when I bought it. I would not recommend mounting the motor any further back than that. If I don't have my trim set right she will porpois some. One thing I like about it is that it gets the rigging out of the back of the boat just enough to free up the aft cockpit area.

Thats exactly the reason i was wanting to do these mods! Thanks Wingtime. My end state is freeing up the space for fishing and having everything have its place. i know it can be done. The flotation pods I think will help offset the bracket at rest and give a bit more stability without sacrificing the center of gravity too bad. if it dont work out like im thinking then I will have to mount some trimtabs on the pods

[RickK]

I have a 6" jackplate on my 170 and since I have hydraulic steering I set it back 2 more inches.  I too have a porpoising problem unless the speed and trim are just right.  I haven't filled the main tank yet nor had anyone in the front of the boat yet to see if the extra weight helps with this.
These babies are COG sensitive.

[minionsram]

I have a 6" jackplate on my 170 and since I have hydraulic steering I set it back 2 more inches.  I too have a porpoising problem unless the speed and trim are just right.  I haven't filled the main tank yet nor had anyone in the front of the boat yet to see if the extra weight helps with this.
These babies are COG sensitive.

How well does yours sit at rest and coming off plane rick?

[boatnamesue]

My end state is freeing up the space for fishing and having everything have its place.

I understand the premise of using the foam filled pods to offset the addition of a bracket or jackplate.  In theory it could work.  But only by using some mathematical rocket science equation, using the additional length and weight of the pods, along with how much flotation you get by using X amount of foam.....you see where I'm going.   You'd have to start with knowing where the hull COG is located.  This in itself will be incredibly difficult.  Then you'd have to know the change in COG distance aft the addition of the bracket/jackplate has caused.  Then you'd have to know how much foam added to the pods gives X amount of floatation, which in turn will offset the COG X amount forward.

Personally I'd stay away from installing a bracket on a 170.  Primarily because, why?  You'd have trouble finding a transom mounted bracket 6" or less anyway.  But why install one?  Jack plate, yeah this would be a helpful addition if you're one who consistently runs through shallow water.  Otherwise, at moderate speed and appropriate trim your boat will run through 1 foot of water.  Believe me, I've done it. 

And I'm not trying to be the buzz kill here with your idea of adding pods, this is just my opinion.  Believe me, I'd love to see you do it because I'd love to learn the outcome lol.  But I think you're setting yourself up for a lot of labor and expense for what will most likely not work out as you intend.  So you gotta ask yourself, what's the reason I want to add pods and a bracket/jackplate?  From reading your words I've quoted above, you just want to free up space aft of the console.  Well what do you currently have back there that is taking up space?   Cause you're considering adding weight on the transom to a boat that already sits ass heavy, just to free up space aft of console, with either a bracket or jackplate.  Then add flotation pods to offset the aft weight.  Boy o boy. 

I've added a few pics of my 170.  You can see with the 1st pic there is nothing aft of console that could interfere with whatever.  The 2nd picture is the leaning post I added (note where it's secured to deck, in relation to how forward from transom, using fuel panel as guide).  The 3rd picture is the removable 13 gallon baitwell that I keep in the boat most of the year.  Even when it's in the boat I still have plenty of room to move about behind leaning post.  If you don't have as much room as I've described having in on my boat, it's possible your console is secured to deck too far aft. 

[RickK]

I have a 6" jackplate on my 170 and since I have hydraulic steering I set it back 2 more inches.  I too have a porpoising problem unless the speed and trim are just right.  I haven't filled the main tank yet nor had anyone in the front of the boat yet to see if the extra weight helps with this.
These babies are COG sensitive.

How well does yours sit at rest and coming off plane rick?

Unfortunately I haven't gotten pics of this yet but it seems to to sit fine, scuppers let in water when I walk to the aft though.  I don't see any problems coming off plane.  Engine still has less than 2 hours on it.
I've sidetracked myself by buying an old RV that I've dove into to get camping ready - I'll come up for air pretty soon though.