Bad Trip

[daniel123]

I just returned from the family Xmas trip from Ohio to North Captiva Isle, FL, with the 1999 Osprey 200 in tow and dropped it off at the service department at the marina along the way. I've spent $6k in repairs on the 1999 Johnson 115 Two Stroke over the past three autumns, where they've replaced everything they can think off to eliminate what was at first a low speed/trolling stalling problem -- and it's gotten worse. To prep for this trip I had them replace the fuel line hose from the tank to the fuel filter and had them pump out all 25 gallons of new-last-spring "ethanol enriched" 89 octane gas when the boat was in all of September for the last round of $2k engine repairs. As such, I tested the boat in the local lake afterwards with a portable tank, and it started hard as usual, but seemed to run ok once it got warmed up. I couldn't run it much because it was on a 10 hp lake and I didn't want to rile the locals.....

With the empty tank I stored the boat September-December in anticipation of filling its 25 gal tank with ethanol free fuel once we got close to the marina where I would launch it and make the 8 mile run across Pine Island Sound to the boat-accessible-only island with wife, teenage son and all our gear and groceries for Xmas week.  I bought a pair of $200 AGM batteries, replaced the plugs and lower unit fluid, and thought I had done, or had the shop do, everything possible to assure a smooth operation during a trip that relied on the boat to get to and from the destination and serve as our primary source of fun while there.

We got a tank full of ethanol-free gas at a Wawa service station in Punta Gorda and after backing it into the water at a ramp in Bokeelia, and some serious primer ball pumping, finally got gas to the engine. It started hard, as usual, but finally fired and idled reasonably well while smoking a lot, which I figured was from my fogging oil. It still didn't sound right, but we had no choice as our reservation started the next day so the next morning we loaded up and made the run to the island. After stalling once or twice in the No Wake Zone on the way, we barely planed out which I attributed to a heavy load. But once we arrived, the engine stalled as we approached the dock, wouldn't idle and we were stuck. For the next four days, as soon as I throttled-up to 1000 RPM in forward or reverse, with engine in gear or out, it would die. If I jammed the boat into gear and throttled-up right away, I could sometimes get it to continue to run and plane out, but never at more than about 3000 rpm.

One factor was the primer ball wouldn't stay hard, and when I left the rig overnight it would go completely soft/empty and take a while to get primed and pumping any fuel at all. When I tried my replacement primer bulb the same thing happened. When I had my son pump the ball at idle when it started to soften, it didn't seem to help, nor did bumping the 'choke' on the ignition when it started to falter.

On our last day I finally borrowed a 6 gallon can, filled it with fresh ($7.50 per gallon) gas I begged off the island's rental boat operator, and splicing in my on-board ball and hose was able to get the engine to idle ok and get me out of the No Wake area to where I could run it on plane, and got 4500 rpm. When I switched back to my on board tank with the new ethanol-free fuel, the engine stalled again at idle and only got 3000 RPM at WOT. When I switched back to the portable tank/fuel I got 4500 RPM and a decent, but not great, idle.

The next day, we got back to the mainland with the portable tank and the engine running ok at high speed, although I didn't test/trust it at idle for too long on the shorter no wake route, just wanting to get back to the ramp and on our way. We sent the borrowed gas tank back by ferry, after burning about 5 gallons on the estimated 8 mile run with a full load.

As a final bit of frustration, that final day when I was testing the two fuel delivery systems, portable and on-board, once we got the engine running on either one, the key and the emergency shut-off stopped working and wouldn't turn the engine off!
We had to starve it by crimping the fuel line instead of using the new ignition the shop had installed last fall and hadn't been turned more than couple dozen turns before this trip.

I left the rig at the marina hoping they would be able to test the gas to see if it was bad and/or find a hitch in the fuel delivery system or the outboard that could be causing the problems that all but ruined our trip and had us facing a $500-plus SeaTow. Any ideas you guys have for what might have caused the issues, and share with my marine mechanic, an old school veteran of two stroke repair, are appreciated.   

[wingtime]

You could have a stuck anti-siphon valve on your tank.  Clearly your issue is with the boats fuel system.  I doubt the new fuel was an issue.  Maybe there still was some crud on the bottom of the tank that contaminated it.  Maybe a bunch of condensation built up in the empty tank during storage leading to a water in fuel problem.  Do you have a fuel separator filter?  Better yet one with a clear drain bowl on the bottom?

I'd say you have a break in your magneto ground wire that is preventing you from shutting the engine down with the key.  It should be a black wire with a yellow trace.  It could be the key switch too but the fact that your lanyard did not work suggests it is the wire.

[Blue Agave]

Be sure and inspect the fuel vent, if corroded it will not allow air into the fuel tank.

[ktisdall]

Another possible blockage point is the fuel pickup tube in the tank.  They sometimes have a screen over the bottom end which can rust / crud over.   So the tank will appear to breath but the engine still won't suck fuel.   

You can test by removing the fuel fill cap while running.  If it still bogs then it's some part of the line from the tank that is blocked.   I would replace the primer ball if you have not already.  Those little valves can go bad as well.

FYI Sea Tow memberships are fairly cheap (like $175/year) and can cover your trailer as well as the boat.   Might be worth having until you get this ironed out.  Especially if you are making big trips like that.

Good luck.

--Kevin 

[daniel123]

Thanks for the input, guys, and much of it was spot on. I just talked to the mechanic who said he replaced the wiring harness, which wasn't in a jacket as it should have been, and noted that a black wire with a yellow tracer (magneto ground?) was corroded and may have been arcing.

The ignition key now turns the engine on and off.

He replaced the terminal that split the grounds from the two batteries to the engine, which was corroded and loose. I had to tighten that at one point last week to get any power at all.

He pulled the fuel pick-up and noted that it was ok, and tested the gas, which he said was fine.

At one point last week, when we were idling I rinsed a beer can over the side while holding the T-top and got an electronic  tingle from the can. He said that was likely caused by something grounding on the aluminum support, but the only electronic accessory I have attached to the top is a metal Shakespeare VHF antenna bolted to an aluminum VHF radio accessory panel/piece, which has him puzzled. Any ideas on that?

He said the engine idled fine when he backed the rig down the launch ramp and tested it on the trailer, albeit not under load. He had to break skim ice to do that, (We're in Ohio, after all...) and a full sea trial may not be possible until the spring thaw.

My question is, he found no fuel/fuel system problems; so could the wiring issues have been the poor idling/performance culprit all along?

That said, I'm going to wait until spring and take it out for an extended test before I commit to another fishing trip. And I appreciate everyone's input.

[love2fish]

suggestion: I would not just "wait" on the motor till spring if I were you. letting a boat just sit can be the worst thing for it. Especially your carbs. Every couple weeks, I would go out and hook the hose up to run it for a few minutes. Sounds like some sketchy wiring he was able to fix for you. as other's have pointed out, you should inspect your fuel tank vent line and fitting on the side of your boat.

your mechanic should be able to use a voltage meter and see if your t-top has any charge going thru it. or with everything turned off,,, check the load on the batteries, could have a bad ground somewhere. wiring corrosion is contagious.

glad it seems to be working now though.

[daniel123]

The mechanic tells me that the wiring harness, and the failure in that wire in particular, was the cause of the engine's erratic performance (stalling at 1000 rpm, etc). Does that sound right? I can understand that such an electrical problem might account for the failure to shut the engine off using the key switch, but that doesn't explain why the engine appeared to run so much better on a portable fuel tank with different fuel compared with how it performed using the on-board fuel/system and the same primer bulb. He claims the engine is running fine using the on-board fuel/system now, at least while not under load. Is it possible that a new wiring harness has really resolved the engine performance problem?

[love2fish]

very possible. could be as simple as: when you were moving the wires around to connect the aux gas tank, you moved that harness so it gave a better connection (albeit, still not a solid connection, but enough to pass some juice to the motor).

[daniel123]

Thanks for the input, everyone, and I welcome any other thoughts. Meanwhile, I guess a post-thaw shakedown cruise next spring will tell!

 

[daniel123]

Now that things have thawed here on Ohio, I finally got to water test the '99 200 Osprey with the new wiring harness to the '99 115 Johnson two-stroke and seems to run fine now. Better than it has in several seasons in fact. Started easily, idled smooth and ran well at WOT, at least in the 1/2-hour test I gave it yesterday. I've got $6k in replacement parts and labor invested in that outboard while troubleshooting what started as a rough idle problem and just got worse over the past three seasons. That it was a (faulty/old/deteriorating) wiring harness surprises me, but several here confirmed that that might be it when suggested by my marine mechanic who replaced it in December, so my hat's off to you guys. I don't have to tell you how good it feels to know that boat motor's running ok -- 'been a money on my back for quite a while..!     

[RickK]

That's good to hear Daniel - now get out and enjoy her.