22-2 Build

[Flash305]

Hi fellas, 
Been a browser on these threads for quite some time and have gained a lot of useful information for my 73.  What originally started out as just a deck and gas tank replacement has turned into a decent rebuild not completely gutted (At least not yet  )  First ill start with a little bit about the boat.

Originally it was my neighbors down the block, my bus used to pass it everyday on the way to middle school and I had always said when it goes up for sale im going to buy it.  Well it happened and for 1500 bucks me and a buddy from college split it. The original owner had passed and his son could not get it running.  Turned out all the 1987 suzuki 115 needed to pur was a hot feed from the ignition switch.  Bought it with 60 gallons of 5 year old gas in the tank.  The boat ran on the trailer with that gas so silly me said itl be fine lets test it out.  Needless to say got about a mile from the launch and she bogged down, filters clogged and wouldnt run.  we flipped up the homemade t-top (a few peices of pvc fence) and literally sailed it back in    anyway we ran it for the rest of the summer after putty maybe 200 dollars into it off a 10 gallon bladder and a couple of gas cans.  We also did a lot of pumping out every 4-5 hours because the drain plug leaked just a little bit.    But I digress.

So...
Back of the deck, and the piece over the gas tank were soft as can be so this year we ripped the floors out with the gas tank and decided to redo them.  Upon removing the motor and scuppers you could feel the wood inside was soft on the transom, and as further inspection showed the transom was no beuno.     after reading endless build threads on here and elsewhere and getting quotes way out of our price range we decided to do it ourselves.  We also found that along the middle of the boat there were 2 long peices of wood that were fiberglassed to the hull that had been completely rotted away inside. 
As the boat sits right now the floors are out, the stringers are cut back 6 inches or so, and most of the old transom wood (if you could call it that anymore) is out.  (pics will come very soon)

The materials list i have for the transom is
-2 sheets of marine ply 3/4
-1708 mat
-1708 tape (8 inch wide)
-2.5 once cloth (to go over everything-transom and floors- to give it a nice finish)
-Epoxy resin
-Fillers - cabosil and wood flour and fairing compound

I would like to put a layer or even 2 of 1708 on the inside of the outer skin before we bond in the new transom core.
When i do this should i bond the transom in when its wet or let that cure and then sand it, and then bond in the new core?

We would like to rain the transom sides, so as to limit the amount of water that can come in off the back, (would love to go bracket but i think that will put us a little out of our price range) so the motor will still be on the transom but the width of the opening will be much smaller.  Is this sound like a plausible idea? I ask because usually i see people close their transoms and go bracket no so much just raise the sides.

Last question   
When we pulled the pieces of the stringers we cut out the foam filled inside of them is saturated up to about an inch.  My question is can I cut the top of the stringers open to access the foam and keep going back in sections until it is fully dry?   If so when I cut the top open, should I make a square hole in the top to go in through or should I cut it on after the turn down so it is a better surface to bond back together? And when i put the stringer pieces back in can I just pretty much tab it back in and then wrap the entire thing in 1708?   

I know its a lot and I thank you all for the information I have already gained and know I will continue to gain through this forum.

[RickK]

Welcome aboard Flash 

I'll step into the shallow end here 

1. Take the cap off if you can, you don't want to cut it if you can help it - more to repair. It might need re-coring anyway.  If you take it off, try to lock it in the shape it is before taking it off. Use wood to set up a form of some type.

2. We'll need to see the stringers and see what shape they're in before we can really advise.  Cutting them back 6" is not enough - 12-18" gives you room to work.  The stringer grid was one piece when they glued it in.  How are the center pieces of the grid where they bond to the hull?

3. You should grind the existing transom inside nice and clean and then glue a 1 foot piece of 1 or 1.25ID" PVC to the hull bottom lining it up with the drain plug hole. Then lam 2 layers of 1708 (CSM side toward transom) on the transom skin extending to the hull and onto the hull sides in increasing overlap (4 and 8") and you might want to even lam a layer of 3/4 or 1.5oz CSM on top of that so you have something to stick to when you lam in the coring.  Let this harden lightly scruff it up a little to smooth out and give it some teeth for the coring.

4. Lay your transom core on something flat and level. Two options to keep the two pieces aligned when clamping them down - 1) drill a hole through both pieces, in opposing corners for a wooden dowel to be driven in (you can grind them flush later) , 2) use a drywall screw in each corner to keep them aligned (remove after the transom hardens). Put some 3/4oz CSM between the layers of plywood (soak each inside piece and lay the CSM in between). Stack every heavy thing you have on top of the cores to weigh them down - I used quite a few cinder blocks.

Ok, someone else can pick up where I left off.

[RickK]

5) We need to see pics of the two pieces of wood you're talking about that are glassed to the hull.

6) Take the hardened transom core and make sure it fits against the transom nicely - notch it around the pvc pipe at the bottom (this pipe will allow water to drain out without pooling up in front of the transom - you'll be affecting the back and bottom of the boat with all the layers of glass you'll be adding to the transom area)

7) You have several options on how to clamp the transom core into the hull.  1) You can create clamps from 4x4s or landscape timbers and all thread bolts or find some that will work 2) you can drill holes though the outer skin through the new core for bolting timber across the hull in several places to pull it tightly into the transom skin. 3) a combination of both.  When you decide which you'll use set up a dry run to make sure you know how to do it.

8) When ready to install the core, mix up some resin and cabosil into a peanut butter consistency and when ready, add and mix in the hardener. Use a wooden spoon or home made fillet tool and lay a thick fillet in the corners where the transom meets the hull sides and the hull bottom, and then, using a 1/4" notched trowel, trowel the thickened resin either onto the transom skin or to the transom core itself and then place the core into the boat and clamp.

9) After it sets up a couple days remove the clamps. Fill the holes with thickened resin if you used clamping method #2. 

10) Clamp a 1x2 across the top of the hull above the transom and clamp/drape 2 to three pieces 1708 into the hull over the core and trim in.  Make sure each extends into the bottom and hull sides so they overlap the previous. If you use 3 layers overlap them by 4, 8 and 12" (these are typical overlaps).  Make sure you include the pvc pipe in the trimming.  Flip the trimmed cloth back out of the boat, over the top of the 1x2.

11) When you're ready to laminate, mix enough thickened resin to fillet around the edges of the core again and let it kick a little to start hardening up so it doesn't get pushed out of the corners. Now mix enough resin to saturate the layers of cloth.  Using a cheap medium nap roller sleeve coat the core, hull sides and bottom with resin and flip the first layer of cloth into the boat and press it into the resin and hard roll to spread and remove bubbles.  Then flip the next layer in and repeat.  Repeat until complete.  Let it harden a few days, especially if using epoxy.

[HawgLeg]

How is your outer transom skin and are you planning to have a closed transom? I'm on my first rebuild and Rick helped me develop a plan for replacing my outer skin and transom core. It turned out very strong and clean.

For the transom core clamps, you can order the all-thread bolts and all of the nuts and washers from McMaster-Carr (MC is your friend when you need things in a pinch).

I used poly for my outer skin and it popped off of my formica dam very easily. I'm not so sure if epoxy would have popped off that easy without some mold release.

My last two cents... RAKA epoxy is very forgiving in a lot of ways for a beginner. I started out thinking I would do all poly then was persuaded strongly to at least do everything below deck in epoxy. This is still the route I am going because I still have about 8 gallons of poly left to use. In hindsight I would have done my entire boat with epoxy even though epoxy cost a good bit more. I was going to gelcoat originally which was why I chose poly, but now I'm going with EMC Quantum paint so it doesn't matter what I used lol.

This will be a great challenge and can be a lot of fun for you. Good luck and ask lots of questions and make sure you take detailed pics. There are some very fine gentlemen on here with LOTS of experience that are happy to help. 

[Flash305]

wow,  thank you very much Rick for the detailed response(s)  and Hawg I will look into the raka epoxy have read good things from more than one person about it, my partner in this project found promarinesupplies.com to have a decent price for epoxy but I havent found much about them.  I have been looking at different brands and was wondering which ones to use.  We will be using epoxy for the transom,  we already have poly that we will be using for the floor before we got involved in the transom. 

Hawg, which on of the epoxy resins would you suggest,  a thin or thick one, from what i understand when coating the core its better to use a thin epoxy so it will absorb into the wood better then I can thicken it where I need to use putty or fillers and what have you.  We are planning on raising the sides of the transom, by that I mean to raise the sections on both sides of the motor and have it drop down in the middle, unless something changes rapidly and we find a bracket.  The outer skin to me seems ok, ill see what you guys have to say when I post the pictures in a moment.

[RickK]

If you try to attach a file you are limited by file size. If you try to post a picture link hosted on another site the max size is 1100x1100.  If you upload them into your gallery here the site will size them to the correct size and then you can use the steps in this tutorial to post them in your topic.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=12725.0

[RickK]

12) When the transom lamination is cured, grind the pvc pipe at an angle from the transom to the hull bottom.  Now the lowest part of your boat is still at the rear of your boat and water won't pool in front of your transom, like it does in mine, instead of draining out the drain hole.  Maybe Hawgleg can post a pic of what his finished drain looks like.

[HawgLeg]

Here ya go. This is what Rick was explaining about the PVC drain in the bilge

[RickK]

Thanks HL.  The mouth of the pipe is now at the new low spot of the hull, due to all the build up of the laminations.
Was 1 foot enough pipe to start with?

[HawgLeg]

Yea I think 1ft should be good.

[Flash305]

Alright so these are just a few pictures i was able to snap before the rain started the other day, when I get back down to the boat I will take some more

Before we started to gut the transom






And how it sits right now




Now in front of the garbage bag is where the those pieces of wood that were glassed into the floor were.  there were also two pieces in the rear of the boat infront of the transom

[Flash305]

That looks really nice, the pipe idea makes a lot of sense.  So since you overlap with the biax do you not need to tab the transom into the core with tape at all?  Just the fillets and then then the multiple biax layers with the overlaps.   

And Hawg what thickness of epoxy do you use with the raka and how much did you need for the transom? 
Were going to cut the stringers and sides back more to be able to reach the overlaps, along with cleanup and getting rid of the old filler and epoxy. 

what do you guys think about the idea of raising the transom on the left and right side of the motor to help with water coming over the back?

[RickK]

The stringers look to be in good shape.  You might get out of this pretty easily.

[HawgLeg]

My thought would be that your transom height only counts to your lowest point meaning even if you raise it on the sides water can still come in over where the motor mounts. The Raka epoxy is low viscosity so when you mix it neat(no fillers) it permeates into the wood very well and also wets out 1708 well. This time of year I would order slow hardener and down here in the south I would even order some tropical but in Long Island your probably good with just slow. Gives you a little more time to work. As long as your temps are above 50 at night your good to go.

I just did 3 overlapping layers of 1708 for the inside skin, no tape

What motor are you planning to hang?

[Flash305]

Thanks Hawg  I know by raising the sides water will still come in where the motor will be mounted but I can help but think it will help limit the amount that comes over.  Especially sometimes when we go up on the north shore and we are drifting, sometimes those boat wakes come by and can give you a good splash over the rear. 
The motor that was on it originally will be going back on, a 1987 suzuki 115 two stroke, at least for now.  It does seem a little underpowered but it gets the job done.   Ill probably order the thin stuff from raka then pretty soon,  yesterday I just found out about a place called Reinforced Plastic Labs here on long island which i would like to see what their prices are like for the materials then go from there.