1970 Aquasport 222 FB rebuild

[RickK]

Hawgleg and QP google on "tabbing with fiberglass" - lots of answers and Youtube there.

[Que Pasa]

Yea, thanks Rick I read it. Still don't which is better, some prefer larger to smaller cause they say less chance of water intrusion on the the overlap. I guess there is an argument for both ways. I'm leaning toward the overlap method myself.

[HawgLeg]

Here she is at her new home. I haven't cleaned out a spot in the shop yet but will get her inside soon.

The cap and deck seem to be in ok condition. there is some spidering which I will get pictures of.


Stringers are shot. Probably going to do like Aaron said and take them off as one piece from the bottom then remove all the old foam.

Transom looks pretty bad. Planning on a closed transom so I will work on that when the time comes.



Once I get the cap and deck unloaded again I will take more pics.

[RickK]

QP - Try this - http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=12325.0
There are a lot of answers in the Fiberglass and Materials Corner forum.

[HawgLeg]

Ok here's a topic I'd like to see some debate on. Reusing the original stringer design( like Aaron's) VS. Taking them out completely and using a laminated material to make a grid (like DW's)?

For my transom: do I leave the original skin and build onto it with coosa/Penske/marine ply and do I need to work on the transom first before stringers?

[RickK]

The thing about the trapezoid stringers is each stringer is like 2 stringers since it has two sides.  So you would have 8 stringers if you pulled all 5 and rebuilt them.
There is nothing wrong with reusing them or building stringers even out of wood as long as they are sealed correctly - so no debate is necessary. Look through the FB rebuild forum and you'll see some pro rebuilds and us regular guys - see how each approached it. I am rebuilding a 170 so it's smaller but the same issues and decisions.
The main thing is that you have the longitudinal strength with the full length of the stringers and then put bulk heads in to stiffen the hull and connect them to the sides to make a grid and a solid platform to fend off twisting and other stresses.  What you want to do is stabilize that hull maybe on a low floor brace so you can step in and out easily) and then lock the sides in so they don't flex (maybe someone can give you width measurements so you can build braces) and then decide what you're going to do for transom and stringers.  Yes, do the transom first after getting the boat stabilized, it's part of the "hull" and will help stabilize it.
Some advice has been offered to you about cutting them out - what you replace them with after that is up to you.  The main idea is that you grind down the entire hull and then get a couple layers of cloth across the entire hull.  My advice is to use epoxy for this area at a minimum - it's 200 times stronger in bonding than poly and much stronger than vinylester (google bonding strength for epoxy vs poly and you'll get enough to read for the night). Now you have a "new" hull to attach to.
Didn't you get Seacast for the transom with the sale?  I don't think you can get a better material for a transom if it's installed correctly - it's like concrete. A forever transom (Lars can jump in here and give you his experience) but you'll need to prepare to use it.  I think that is a poly based product so you have to be cagey on how you do everything or use something else and sell the seacast.
As for the transom prep - I think you're going to have to lay up some cloth to build up that transom skin and clamp a sheet of melamine to the outside to keep it flat while you're doing the build up - you mention full transom - there are a ton of examples, DW included, to tutor you through this process and using seacast is fine for that application also (not sure how much you have).
Shine also rebuilt a FB and can give his advice.
Enough for now.

[HawgLeg]

Thanks Rick, great info. Yes I did get 6 gallons of sea cast. It says on the label to use promptly and I'm not sure what the shelf life is. I'm sure it was stored properly though. Am I supposed to be able to smell the vapors a mile away when it hasn't been opened?? I'm definitely up for using the materials I have cause it will save some coin. I have a really convenient maintenence stair that I use for my skiff so getting in and out of the boat isn't a problem at all if its ok to work on the trailer and still brace up the sides.
So when I epoxy 1708 over the entire hull I will use epoxy for the stringers and transom? I read a post you wrote that only epoxy will bond to epoxy right?
I'm pretty sure I'm going to use the original stringers. The logic you presented makes sense plus I think it will be quieter.
I know yor probably just ready for me to get to it hehe. Just anxious and want to do the best job I can. I'm a...

[HawgLeg]

Hmmm... Seacast instructions say guaranteed shelf life of 6 months if stored cool dark no more than 77 deg.

[RickK]

Thanks Rick, great info. Yes I did get 6 gallons of sea cast. It says on the label to use promptly and I'm not sure what the shelf life is. I'm sure it was stored properly though. Am I supposed to be able to smell the vapors a mile away when it hasn't been opened??

No clue about this.  I am concerned about the compatibility of seacast with epoxy.  Do some research on what it is made of.

I'm definitely up for using the materials I have cause it will save some coin. I have a really convenient maintenence stair that I use for my skiff so getting in and out of the boat isn't a problem at all if its ok to work on the trailer and still brace up the sides.

If you are going to leave it on the trailer (I left my 170 on the trailer) just make sure the bottom is supported evenly everywhere and you don't have anything support-wise that is adding a "hook" to the hull (pressing up on the hull and bulging it upward) because when you lay the cloth over the whole hull and it cures, it will cure in the shape of the hull - good or bad.

So when I epoxy 1708 over the entire hull I will use epoxy for the stringers and transom? I read a post you wrote that only epoxy will bond to epoxy right?

Correct. I did the whole hull of my 170 with epoxy, to include stringers and transom.  I have a liner so I was able to switch up to poly above the floor and attach to the liner sides with poly.  I'm gelcoating above the liner and gelcoat is poly. Check out my rebuild, when you have a free week , to see how I made the transisition.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to use the original stringers. The logic you presented makes sense plus I think it will be quieter.

  Your choice.  You'll have to cliean them up (grind) and reattach with fillets and tabbing and then I would cover them all the way with 1708.  Check out this rebuild by a pro and they cut out and reused the stringers http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9991.0

I know yor probably just ready for me to get to it hehe. Just anxious and want to do the best job I can. I'm a...

  We all had questions - I still have questions, so no problem.

[larsli68]

Hello HawgLeg and Rick,

Yes, it stinks even if the cans are not opened... Mine came from Denmark, and had been sitting for a while.
They looked a bit like dried paint cans when I first opened them, but I stirred them good and they came out fine.
What I learned is that Seacast is not compatible with Epoxy. It will not bond to anything but poly.

It is also important to remove all wood. I extended my transom back to stock (1/2") taller on the sides, and cut out the profile of the transom before the pour.
I also installed a couple of the Seacast blocks to help keep the transom from buckling.
Once I poured up to the level were the motor sits, I used duck tape and some lead weights to help the tape, and kept pouring starboard and port sides from the top.
If you are doing a full transom, I think you need to glue some of those blocks to prevent the transom from buckling.

It was quite a bit of heat generated when the Seacast started to harden.
I was never worried, but it was warm to the touch. It did not burn your hand, but was not far from it.
After the pour, I grind the outside and inside (4 inches) and fiber glassed a cap over the top. The transom is now rock hard and super strong.
I'm very happy with the product, even though it was a lot of work, I'm super happy with the end result.

I hope this helps. Please don't hesitate to ask me more questions.
I'm not a pro

//Lars

[HawgLeg]

It has been a while since I've posted anything but I did finally get started.This flatback had a failed attempt at a seacast transom pour. Most of the material had been removed prior to me getting the boat. I really just wanted to do something today so I started by suiting up and grinding what was left of the seacast on the outer transom skin and the starboard hull side.

There was actually a good bit of seacast left on there as well as some old ply on the transom skin that wasn't removed for the previous transom job. I ground some about two feet from the transom corner toward the bow on the starboard side. The CSM looked pretty bad and I even had to get into the woven a bit because there were voids and delimitation.

Again, I was just getting my feet wet today. I have all day tomorrow to get after it. But this is what I did so far.
I'd like to hear some opinions of what to do with this transom skin. I'm thinking cut it out and leave about 2-3" all the way around to screw some melamine to it so I can lay up a new transom skin. Or should I repair the original skin and build it up. I am doing a closed transom. I am also working with poly for the whole shebang.
 

[HawgLeg]

More holes in the transom skin

Port side transom with lots of seacast to grind off


Also, here are some shots of the stringers. They gotta come out. Too much work to repair and repair and I want to do a grid with something else anyway.

[RickK]

If you need a tool to get into the corners Harbor Freight is your toy store
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-surface-sanding-disc-kit-96785.html

Here is some places for examples of transom rebuilds.
Poly
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9991.msg87558#msg87558

Poly
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=957.msg6588#msg6588

Vinylester
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9842.msg88588#msg88588

Epoxy and cut out totally
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=4582.msg33663#msg33663

Poly and totally cut out - coosa for everything
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=5724.msg39492#msg39492

Epoxy and cutout with lip left around edge
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11294

That should keep you busy for a while and help you make a decision which will work best for you.

[Callyb]

Hawg, that skin is freaking toast! I would brace the sides up and cut that crap out of there. 

[HawgLeg]

Cally I concur with you man. Did some more prep grinding today and cut out the old skin leaving a 2.5" lip. Braced the hull before I cut and measured from chine to shear. Both sides were equal so I felt good about proceeding with removing the skin. Phone died while I was working so I came inside to get some water, AC and a recharge. Home Depot nor Lowes had any melamine sheets so I called a buddy and he is ordering some from Atlanta on Monday. Should have it on Tuesday. This should give me time to be absolutely ready to layup my new skin next week.

I'm using Poly and I already have 3/4oz mat and 1708. Ya'll think this will work for the skin?
3/4oz
2x1708
2xply with 3/4,1708,3/4
inside skin(2x1708?)