250 CCP Power

[NavyCWO]

Hello all.

Im back in Italy for a bit, I have abot 49 days to go on this deployment and I will be home, I am going to miss Christmas, hope its the last one I miss..  Ok, the restore is coming along nice, promise to post pics upon my return home. My question, I am putting a very clean great running pair of 1989 Johnson 200hp loopers on a Stainless marine bracket, it originally had a pair of 140hp loopers on it (transom mounted) does anyone think this to much weight? they are 400lbs pounds or so a piece.
Also, with these engines, what kind of speed am I looking at? I am thinking WOT, trimmed with all the right conditions, at least 55mph or more, cruise, high 30's? is this wishful thinking? can anyone give me a reality check....

Thanks,
Navy

[gran398]

The bracket adds flotation, you're fine. That boat should run near 60 with the right props.

[kaptainkoz]

I'm not sure that's a good idea. The hull is rated for 300 horsepower so you are going way over the power rating. And yes, a bracket does add some bouyancy however I doubt it is enough to counter the additional leverage of locating the motors 24-36 inches further back from the transom and compensate for heavier motors. The CCP's are ass heavy to begin with so if anything you may be looking at deck drainage issues with the weight of the bracket and the motors. However I don't think that 200's are going to weigh that much more than 140's. I think it's going to rely heavily on how much bouyancy the bracket will offer to counter the additional weight plus the leverage. Regardless you are still over horsepower.
They are long, skinny boats which would probably fly with a pair of 200's. As much as we all love speed and to get there fast, ask yourself if you can actually use the speed. Out of Jones Inlet, south shore Long Island there are rarely days where the seas are calm enough to full throttle any boat.
That's my 2 cents for what it's worth. You are doing the right thing by asking on here so others can chime in too. I don't have twins on my 246 ccp so it's tough for me to advise past what I mentioned above which is pure theory and not experience.

[NavyCWO]

Koz,

the bracket is a stainless marine Bracket, older one. Your getting me worried now, am I looking at any serious issues here with weight and balance, deck drainage etc. (other than 100hp over)?  your thoughts...

Navy

[Capt. Bob]

Well you're adding about 160 # to the mix but my question is this:

How much flotation do you really have?

If you completely seal the bracket itself, will it float? It should if it provides additional buoyancy. Then will it float with the engine attached? Doubt that but it was designed only to offset some of the additional weight set rearward of the transom.

I had a live well that added about 140# on the back of my full platform. Never really experienced any serious effects but again, I wasn't overpowered either.

At 40+ gals./hr. WOT, better have some fuel storage but again, are you really going to run like that all the time?

Only you know.

Good luck.

[NavyCWO]

Capt. Bob

 it looks like based off of the engine weight difference between the 140 and 200 is about 100lbs a piece, if bracket was completely sealed  I guess it would float. I don't fish real far off shore, out to 45 miles, some days are nice and flat off of Jacksonville so I could run wot if I wanted to, I don't do that often. fuel, yup I know she will burn it, and the tank is only 125 gal I think. So am I going to have issues?? if so what can I do to compensate the rearward weight? These engines were a great deal and they run so nice, had the same exact engines on my 1989 Hydrasport 25 vector, (not on a Bracket) and they never missed a beat and they would scream!!! your thoughts..

[gran398]

Had no clue the max hp was 300.

Not to be a downer, but insurance coverage may be very expensive, if available at all. And if you were involved in a collision, MOB etc., they'd be on you like white on rice.

[seabob4]

Twin 200s.  Run with it...

[NavyCWO]

Gents,

Well, I am going to have them put on the bracket, but not rigged, and I am going to do a float test on her when I get back and look at how she sits.. if it looks like its to low, I will rethink it. From what I am reading, even if I drop down to 150's the weight will only be a little less than the 200's and still much more than the 140's!! I fully understand the HP rating for the boat back then was 300hp, why was that? I see 21' new flats boats with a single 300 from the factory!! I trust all input from everyone on this site. A buddy of mine told me that because of the added bracket that the HP rating could probably modified?? Anyone?? does this sound legit?.

Please give me some more input, I spending a lot of money restoring this boat and I want it to be right!!

Thanks to everyone,

Navy

[Blue Agave]

In order to offset the weight of the motors being set back on the bracket you must shift weight forward. I recommend moving the fuel tank forward, the console forward, the batteries forward.

[NavyCWO]

Blue,

Thanks, unable to shift tank or console forward, batteries have been placed in the center console. I have the large coffin above deck fish box,  was thinking about putting a large piece of lead, about on the bottom of the inside of the box, maybe 150-175 pounds worth or something to that affect up forward??? how does that sound? Anyone????

Navy

[RickK]

You'll have to play with some sand bags and see what happens.

[NavyCWO]

Rick,

awesome call with the sand bags!! didn't even think of that!!! thank you. ran this weight issue by the Pros, that are restoring the boat, they told me they already were aware of the difference in the weight and they will take care of it properly!!! you guys are the greatest on this site!!

Navy

[seabob4]

Navy, there really is no telling as to why the max HP rating on a 250 CCP was 300, as we have no one to ask.

However, I will say this, having worked in the industry for a few years.  This was true from the mid 90s to just a couple years ago, I'm sure it was true back then.  Builders will try the highest HP boat/motor combination they can safely install.  There a number of tests (these days) required by NMMA during boat testing that have to be met in order for the rating to be certified.  If the boat/motor combos fail any of these tests, either certain seating placards have to be installed, certain placards at the helm instructing the driver to "do this, don't do that", additional handholds may be required, that sort of thing.

Then again, any given hull may just get "squirelly" at a certain speed, as perhaps that hull wasn't designed to see a speed that a lot of HP can give it.  A perfect example, Proline's 29 Super Sport, a derivative of the Donzi 29 ZF without the steps.  Twin 250s, she did great, top bop a shade under 55, very sure footed.  But throw a pair of 300s on her, and get her pushing 60 MPH...her back end wanted to "shift" on you...very unsettling.  Trust me, I know.  Granted, PL went ahead and rated her for 600 HP, but I guaranty you the average boater wouldn't be able to use all 600 horses.

Just some food for thought...

[kaptainkoz]

Sorry to respond so late but I see many have added valuable insight. Basically aside from the over powering, the boat isn't going to sink. The worst that can happen is that you will have a bit of water coming in from your floor drains when you stand in the stern area. If it becomes too much you can plug the drains with rubber plugs and remove/install as needed, balance the boat with sand bags or drop the weight with smaller motors. you can always sell bigger motors to get smaller motors. True, the weight difference is not that much to go from 140's to 200's, but its the additional leverage from the bracket that makes the weight seem even more regardless of the counter buoyancy of the bracket. If your already well under way with the project then give it a shot and see what happens. I got the 300hp max off of a plate that was on a 1980 or 1981 250 CCP so I know that to be accurate. let us know how you progress and post a few pics please.