Ferguson response

[fitz73222]

Typically I wouldn't engage in internet conversation about this but I'm at a loss in understanding about the reactions and the dialog. How is it possible, that an 18 year old who threatens a police officer, engages him with violence and executes it and society expects the outcome to be something different than what happened? Where are the parents in this equation? I'm sure their perception is much different than reality about their son. This 18 year old adult isn't a victim, he made a decision and lost. He wasn't high or effected by influence beyond his own belief that his behavior was justified to go to a potential lethal level because it's cool? Then the community response is to burn and loot local established business' in their own backyard? I watched these folks bust windows and steal items, then torch the place? Help me connect the dots how the response is relevent to the situation? Lets destroy the fabric of our local community and gain personal wealth to somehow exonerate this young man from any responsibility for what happened? I watched Reverend Al and the family attorney boast of the injustice without ever approaching who is ultimately responsible creating the situation? I guess if oppression has become your only mantra in life then perpetuating it is somehow justifed. I guess it beats taking responsibilty for your life and doing something with it, Go figure.

[seabob4]

Don't do chit that will cause you trouble.  Nuff said...

[fitz73222]

Not trying light the fuse Bob, nor am I speaking with naivete about the sensitivity of this, this is a  society issue. People make decisions every minute that effects their own lives, some good, some bad. If we understand the rules of behavior then at the end of the day we've made more good decisions than bad. But we get hung up on society's response to making a bad decision.

[gran398]

This is neither religion or politics....so thanks for opening it to discussion Farl.

We all know that he strong-armed/robbed a little convenience store clerk. That was on tape. Then he cussed/belittled/challenged the officer who was sitting in his car. Then put his hands on the officer's gun and two shots were fired. One grazing the officers hand. This "child" was 6'6" and 280 pounds. Plus young and strong.

Runs off...then according to witness #10, turns around and charges the officer. Officer fears for his life, folds him like a K Mart lawn chair.

So mom and dad...if you could call them that, as basically they raised a thug....now want to play the race card. As do some of Ferguson's 70% black population. But look closely at the videos last night. These people came to rape and pillage. Black bandanas, hoodies, full face masks. Forget a peaceful protest, it's Christmas morning.....let's go steal some chit.

Now watch...."mom and dad" will be on the talk show circuit, sell their life story for books and movies, etc., etc....

Only in America friends.

[Capt. Bob]

OK,
Let's not let this get out of hand.

I try and made a point of not displaying opinions/beliefs on politics, religion, or social morays and this Forum isn't meant for that but I will say this.....

It's hard for me to understand the reasoning too but I feel it revolves around the fact that I never have had to experience anything like what many in this Country do.
I don't know poverty, dysfunction, lack of love and I wasn't born into drugs. I never grew up with fear and I always truly believed I'd end up rich, doing just what I wanted to do. Nothing ever "made" me shun authority or disrespect it. It just wasn't the world I was born in or continue to live in. I don't understand the life others live and the really sad thing is at times, I don't seem to care.

That I'm quite sure tends to make me part of the problem rather than the solution because not only do I not have the methods to destroy the cycle of misgivings I listed above, I don't possess the intestinal fortitude to try.

That's my story and the last I'll say.

Again, I remind everyone to keep this civil or it will end up in the ether.

Thanks.

[gran398]

That was a good post CB, and honest too. I also feel sorry for what some folk are born into. But with the opportunities this country offers, anyone with intelligence, skill, a bit of luck and an actual work ethic can not only get ahead, they can make millions/lead corporations/governments etc. And has nothing to do with race. Thousands upon thousands have done it.

An excellent example is our friend Eugene Son. Born to working-class Korean parents in Tennessee. Attended the University of North Carolina, then Duke University. Academic scholarships. Went to work in government. Then banking. Then real estate. Then various business ventures. Self-made, young,  and very successful.

Back to Ferguson. I feel sorry for the poor small business owners. Why did they burn down the places they shop? Hell, they even burned the Chinese take-out place.

I'd have been in my shop cocked, locked, and loaded for bear.

[seabob4]

OK,
Let's not let this get out of hand.

I try and made a point of not displaying opinions/beliefs on politics, religion, or social morays and this Forum isn't meant for that but I will say this.....

It's hard for me to understand the reasoning too but I feel it revolves around the fact that I never have had to experience anything like what many in this Country do.
I don't know poverty, dysfunction, lack of love and I wasn't born into drugs. I never grew up with fear and I always truly believed I'd end up rich, doing just what I wanted to do. Nothing ever "made" me shun authority or disrespect it. It just wasn't the world I was born in or continue to live in. I don't understand the life others live and the really sad thing is at times, I don't seem to care.

That I'm quite sure tends to make me part of the problem rather than the solution because not only do I not have the methods to destroy the cycle of misgivings I listed above, I don't possess the intestinal fortitude to try.

That's my story and the last I'll say.

Again, I remind everyone to keep this civil or it will end up in the ether.

Thanks.

Hence, my above statement.

[GoneFission]

Perspectives:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTUqOBJsRdg  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpsQwl_19M4  

And a classic from 2007:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR465HoCWFQ

[seabob4]

Things won't ever change.  Add into the human equation the impact of the Muslim force in western societies which, while obviously present in the middle east and near east, was not even really considered in western societies, i.e. the US and most of Europe, and we pretty much have a recipe for disaster.  

I give the human race another 50-75 years before, through the combined "forces" of all the parties at odds (that includes economic forces as well), we will no longer roam this planet...which I'm sure all the animals, that, fortunately, seem to exhibit none of the negative behaviors of man, will be quite happy about.


JMHO...

[GoneFission]

Hey Bob - don't get so pessimistic!  Actually things are better than most people think.  I'm reading a book right now that I would recommend to all - "Abundance" by Peter Diamandis and Steven Kotler.  The subtitle is "The Future is Better Than You Think."  This is a very well-researched and interesting viewpoint of where we are in human history - and where we might be headed in the future.  I am only about half-way through the book right now, but it has already impressed me with some very different perspectives on recent progress and how the future might play out.  

Grab a copy at your local library or bookstore or online and see what you think:  
Abundance - Diamandis/Kotler

[jdupree]

As some of you know, I was a Greenville NC Police Officer for 4 years.  I dealt with folks like Michael Brown on a daily basis.  I had to stop and make contact with folks like Brown after they had committed a crime.  I know how this officer was talked to based on my experience.  You can't reason with these type of people and they would shoot you if they got their hands on your weapon.  

We are trained in the academy on the use of force and how to apply it in any situation.  Once a suspect goes for your gun, all bets are off and deadly force is authorized.  A Police Officer is required to make split second decisions on very limited data most of the time.  Officer Wilson handled this situation based on what his training taught him.  Based on my training and experience I would have done the same thing.  

Ferguson never should have been an issue to begin with.  This President, Eric Holder, Al Sharpton, and the media made this an issue.  

Thanks for the post Farley and I totally agree with your statements.

[seabob4]

Interesting title there, John..."Abundance".  I would assume (without doing any research, lazyarse me...) that the title refers to the abundance of many different entities, be it crops, technology, water, whatever.  The word "abundance" is a relative term.  It only means something if there is an abundance for all.  If any party, be it an individual, a corporation, a government, has "control" over the particular entity that is "in abundance"...then who benefits from the abundance?  When all benefit, then word truly has meaning.  But, somehow, the world doesn't seem to work that way.  It seems odd that we have a world full of starving people, we have increased crop yields due to technological advancements in agrarian techniques, yet we pay our farmers not to grow, we "warehouse" excess production of dairy products (starving?  And we have excess?), our government purchases from farmers to keep the open market prices stable, yet, and I'm not counting a day or 2 during the month where there is cheese distribution, we don't take ALL that "abundance" and distribute the entire shooting match to the poor neighborhoods throughout the country.  Why warehouse the "abundance"?  Why not just stick it all on trucks and park them in the middle of the poorest neighborhoods in any city, town, or small hamlet?

Why does Monsanto, probably the largest crop seed maker in the world, which obviously has an abundance of technology, develop seed for purchase that ensures, when the crop reaches maturity and is harvested, it produces no seeds which the farmer could reap for himself, thus avoiding the re-purchase of crop seed each season?  There is obviously an abundance in play here, but, as I stated earlier...who controls the abundance?

My pessimism is driven by one word...greed.  The human being seems to be the only life form on this planet that has such a trait.  "Take only what you need" seems to be a foriegn phase to mankind, whether they be poor as dirt, or rich as all get out.  Look at a den of lions in the veldt.  The lionesses have secured the meat required to feed the den.  All in the den are satisfied, and relax on the grass, preening, sleeping, whatever.  A herd of zebras amble by.  The lions are oblivious to the herd, the herd is in no hurry, although they know the pack is there.  Why?  Because the lions have what they need.  Simplistic, indeed, but quite the opposite image as to how we humans behave.  While we may be stuffed to the gills, we'll see that same herd of (fill in the blanks), say, "Hey, I can get more, I'll just get another fridge", and so on and so forth.  It is greed that drives both the rich to get richer, and the poor in Ferguson to loot stores (they just needed an excuse) that, because of their greed, in all likelihood, put that store owner out of business.

So I said more than I had cared to.  Once again, JMHO...

[seabob4]

Mr. Scott Rhodes may weigh in here regarding "abundance", given his profession, a HIGHLY qualified gemologist and jewelry designer and retailer.  It has been reported over the years that there are a lot more diamonds out there than we all are let on to believe...the scarcity of diamonds is one of the reasons (there are many, I'm sure) that diamond prices are very high.  So, in effect, there is an abundance of diamonds...yet that same abundance is in control of a very few selected companies.  So the "abundance", being controlled by a few "select", only benefits those that are in control...of the "abundance".  Once again, a relative term...

[gran398]

Thanks Bob for the compliments....I'm fortunate to have a steady business, particularly in custom design. And some of our clients are here on Classic Aquasport. Thanks guys for you valued patronage

The diamond market. The last meaningful semi-perfect monopoly. Controlled since inception by De Beers Consolidated Mines Ltd., Johannesburg, South Africa.

Yep, in WW II,  De Beers hid hundreds of thousands of carats from the Nazis...in trash cans.

They still control the market supply, even though the Russians and Canadians have made inroads through mining their respective northern fields.

Rather than flooding the market outside De Beers in the short-term...which they are capable of doing....they chose to make steady money going forward....and market their goods through De Beers.

Here's the economic benefit of steady pricing to all concerned....your investment is relatively secure if you're prudent. Prices rise every year....from 2% to 12% or more depending upon mining recovery and rarity. Good news for the consumer...you're not getting hammered....if initially there's value received.
Read...know your jeweler. Don't get ripped. The worst are the national chains with the 3 to 4X markups. They have to pump the bottom line to cover mall rent, national advertising, ROI, investor satisfaction, stock market expectations, etc., etc. This is a commodity market controlled with an iron fist by De Beers....so bottom line the cost to the those purchasing diamond rough is the same across the board.

I have purchased very few diamonds from dealers in the last ten years. The cutter's/dealer's prices are ludicrous. I'd rather broker diamonds from estates. Make 10 to 12%....the seller's are happy, the customer's happy, I'm happy.....don't buy it until it's sold. And the customer buys the good stuff for a LOT less money.

Guys, if you can take one thing from this...find a local jeweler you can trust. Doesn't need the big margin to do biz. Last thing you want to do is go to the mall...if you have to cash out, love gone bad....you'll lose 70% minimum at the pawn shops, etc.

[seabob4]

Scotty, you illustrated my point perfectly, with a bit of salesmanship to go along with it.  Just as there is an "abundance" of food stuffs that are "controlled", there is an "abundance" of gems that are controlled.  

So, John, given the title of the book you recommend, unless the authors can introduce us to TRUE abundance, I'll probably skip it...