Sudden no power to motor or tilt/trim - Help diagnose

[cphilip]

First of all this boat is used and new to me. It is a 97 DT65 Suzuki motor. Good compression. Started and ran fine without a hint of trouble since I bought it. Had a new impeller put in.

Now, all the sudden today when I went to test run it before its madden sea test  (for me anyway, post purchase and impeller install at dealer... but one was done previously without any problems just a few weeks back). It turned over three times and I let off. Turned on the hose pipe to the cups... went to start again and nothing at all. Can't be sure it even clicked at all. Not even like low battery. No gauges either. At that point that is.

Let me also give some background so as not to leave out any possibility.... I ran a Transponder cable and two wires through the Starboard side yesterday using a snake. But... I stopped at each run (there are three stages) and tested each function of the gauges and bumped the motor (did not start) and trim just to verify I hadn't disrupted anything. Just so, if I had, I could narrow down the location. And everything was fine. I then finished the Charter/Plotter install using its own supply from battery (again, so as not to disrupt anything else or put any additional load on any old wires). And everything verified working correctly. All was well. Everything should work. Motor was getting power and was tilt trim. All gauges working. Good deal. Got through that right? Well... perhaps....

So today I approach it and was going to cup run the motor and run it though gears before taking it to the lake tomorrow morning for a shake down.  It tilts down just fine. No problem.

It first turns over about three turns. I let off and climb in the boat to better operate the choke and turn it again... then nothing. No Tilt Trim either. Can't get it back up either.

I then go back up under the console and located only one large fuse holder. A 25 Amp. The fuse was not blown. Messing with it I thought I got a few times response on the fuel gauge (which I don't really know why it would be involved. I thought I saw some indicator lights on the Oil tank indicator but it was real bright sunshine. So I decided to put in a new fuse anyway... still same results. Nothing or little of nothing. So then I just decided to replace the holder with a fresh one and put in a 30 Amp and thought that would do it. Maybe the old one was shot... But no. Nothing. I think one time I got the starter to click but most times nothing. Nothing at all. No tilt or trim either.

Found the fuse in the Engines ignition box but that wasn't blown. And it would be turning over at least if that was it. And wouldn't involve the tilt and trim either.

Front throttle mount tilt and trim button gets no response either.

Put my jumper battery pack on to eliminate bad battery, still no response. Everything non motor related works fine.

At one point I thought about the ignition switch itself but that wouldn't involve the tilt and trim. Because both of those worked independently with the key on or off.  So can't be that.

Its like there is a main fuse, or relay that is located at the motor area that's blown or something. But where is it?

Anyone got any ideas?

I also got to get the motor back up. Two of us couldn't budge it. I opened the valve too in order to try. Can't get it to move much.

[seabob4]

C, does your little Zuke have a trim switch on the motor?  If so, and it doesn't work, then it is the main fuse on the PH.  Where it's located?  Don't know, I'm unfamiliar with these old Zukes.  If the trim switch on the motor works, then the problem lies in the ign switch, and any fusing and connections under the helm, as that's where the TNT in the handle and the gauges get their power...

[cphilip]

It does indeed have a motor switch and it does not work now. So I think your exactly right but I cannot find a fuse in the Cowling. Well... other than I found one hidden in the ignition box but its not blown and it seems to be specific for the ignition. ie the thing would turn over but not start. And...the tilt trim should be unaffected. I do know that previously both the tilt trim on the throttle lever AND the tilt trim on the side of the motor both worked without the key on. And now they both do not. And they both worked just before (and twice after my install) this sudden death as I used the motor mounted switch to power down the motor to position it to put the hose cups on.

I think there must be a main fuse. It may be different looking than I am looking for. It may be hidden in plain sight!  

[seabob4]

Yes, there is going to be a main fuse, but, like I said, I have no clue as to where it's located.  30A minimum...

[cphilip]

The only thing bothers me is that one time it seemed to click a bit like a dead battery or such. Right in the middle of all this checking. Only the once. A fuse thats truly blown is not going to be intermittent like that. But its possible for a fusible link to partially blow I supposed. Or perhaps a relay fry and not carry voltage?  Still think its a fuse and at the motor though. Because of the dead tilt trim ON the motor.

Any advice on tilting the motor while dead? A tow strap and my UTV perhaps? The trailer is hooked to the truck. Can't really drive it anywhere. Skeg is touching ground about.

[pete]

Look for a release valve/screw under the tilt mechanism,turning it should release pressure
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engine-r ... -is-broken

[seabob4]

Like Pete said.  TNT manual release should be on the port side of the motor close to the upper mounting bolt.  Back it off a couple turns, one person should easily be able to lift a 65 horse...

[cphilip]

I did that. And it went down another inch... and bottomed out. But we can't move it back up more than an inch or two. I expected it to pivot easier than it is.

[fitz73222]

Look for a loose connection on the line side of the starter solenoid. Many TNT systems get their 12V from that source. This would also effect the load side going to the starter. This would explain total loss of power with the occasional click you describe.

[Capt. Bob]

Since the system is dead, I'd check the battery connections and a switch (1-2-both-off) if you have one.
I would not be so quick as to eliminate the battery(s) either. A bad cell happens almost always without warning.

Good luck.

[cphilip]

Ok... I'm not sure if I'm happy or more concerned than ever. It fixed itself...

This worries me more than anything.

I go out there this morning and hit the tilt switch located on the motor and "click"...  Surprised I then push it with authority and "wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" . It works!

Its a cloudy cool damp morning. So just to be sure I take the battery connections off, clean them vigorously and return them, tighten them good.

I go up front and turn the key and it cranks. Won't start but cranks. I can eventually smell fuel so I know its getting fuel. Filter looks clean. Tilt trim works every time. Cranks over fast and repeatedly with no instance of hesitation. Tilts up and down real good.

So... we are can rule out fuse I believe. We are dealing with a poor connection. Either at the battery or the main line to the console at the consoles end. Either the ground or hot I could believe. Tending to believe ground at Battery if I had to guess. Or hot at console for second guess.

So I decide to double check that ignition fuse that I had looked at yesterday. Its still good. Pull the plugs, gassy and oily. Probably fouled. Going to go replace them and see what happens. And get a helper so I can observe spark.

I hate intermittent problems. Can't really understand the no start now but working on it. One explanation could be fouling from all the times (5 or 6 or perhaps a few more?) that I bumped it over with no start just to verify power while I was running the wiring. Could have pumped and left enough oil onto the plugs to foul them I guess.

[pete]

Sounds like a bad connection or a bad wire,may want to check resistance of the battery cables,could be corroded inside,welcome to boating!

[cphilip]

Now I remember why I haven't had a boat for so long....  :study:

[seabob4]

C, you are correct, the worst problems are the one's that go away without you doing a damn thing.  You'll always be wondering when they'll come back...because they will...

[gman 82 aquasport]

For a heads up You might be dealing with a wire in the harness from the controls and switch to the engine..Early last year mine did similar antics :x Started it at the house before heading out, everything fine , ran great, get to the dock and slide it off the trailer and go to start the engine and nothing, no click, nothing checked battery connections with meter and had power, so no loose connection there..didn't figure out it was the harness itself until wife is turning the key and I happened to grab the harness as it enters the cowling and she turns over and starts...cut it off and same as before, nothing , grab and wiggle the harness as she turns the key and presto, starts up..long story short, rather than trace each individual wire in the harness, I just bought a new one to replace the 21 year old one, and at the same time replaced the engine harness too, not cheap but, new wire helps rule out wire breakdowns as problems..