Kate's 1974 222 Rebuild

[KlassyKate]

Not too much to update over the past week, but got the hull square and stabilized and started tearing into the transom. Got all of the gelcoat off of the inside of the transom and some of the fiberglass and wood sanded down. What a powdery mess! I know I've read that some people have used an air chisel or grinder or some other method to get this wood out. What is your preferred method?

[gran398]

Kate, a lot of folks just set a Skilsaw to correct depth and start cutting chunks.

[RickK]

Cut it with a Skilsaw as Gran said and then use an airchisel to pop it off - SOOO much easier. If you can find a long chisel for the air chisel that makes it even easier.

[KlassyKate]

Finally got time to follow your guidance and got to work on the transom. Holy nasty mess! Seeing all of that rotten wood makes me cringe - there had been so many holes drilled in that transom that it looked like swiss cheese. I did run into one thing that concerns me - when I was prying some of the wood out and accidentally pushed through the outside skin. No big, other than the fact that water started running out of the fiberglass matting. Is this a common thing or should it be a cause for concern? I figured that once I get all of the rotted wood out that the fiberglass might be able to dry out. Is that the correct line of thinking? If not, then the whole dang thing will need to be removed and, well, I'm not skilled nor knowledgeable enough to be able to keep everything square and correct, meaning that it would have to go to someone (boo).

Here's what I've got:







And a picture of the weeping fiberglass. This is taken from the inside, but the water was running down the outside of the transom:

[CLM65]

I think many of us have found areas where the original fiberglass wasn't fully saturated with resin, but I'm not sure if many have seen it on the transom .  I would think you could dry it out, or carefully cut/grind it out without going all the way through.  If you can leave the outer skin intact, you can just build it up on the inside before you put in the new transom core.

[Aquasport Commodore]

Getting the boat level is easy. Just brace it along the chines and made sure it is level side to side. Take a tape from the bottom of each corner of the transom to the opposite top side across the transom. If the measurements are the same then you are square. I would cut out the transom skin leaving a 4 inch lip all away around. (On mine the skin was too far gone so I had to cut it along the hull sides :cry: ) Read this thread about how to replace the skin http://boatbuildercentral.com/howto/aquasport/index.php Just modify the technique to fit the mod v of our hulls and it will be fine. Your doing a good job, keep it up. At least you don't have as many surprises as I found in mine .

[gran398]

Good work, good directives.

Don't let that weeping glass bother you. Now that it's exposed, will dry out readily. Put a leaf blower on it to speed up the process. If it is gapping, ie not resin-impregnated as Craig mentions....grind it down to where it can be used and re-glassed. Do your best to keep the exterior skin.

[KlassyKate]

It's been a while since I've been on here, but it's about as often as I've had to work on the hull. Summer got too hot, work got too busy, and the boat had to be pushed onto the backburner. With the passing of my Dad back in August, I got renewed motivation to get to work on this project as I know how much he would enjoy it if he were still here. So it's back to the grinder and the drill, the air chisel and the sander, to get this project back underway.

I've got the transom totally out and we are in the process of taking the cap off... holy moly that's a two person job with 80+ screws on each side that have been stuck on there for 40 years! Once I get the cap unscrewed and free, I'm not totally sure of how to keep the curve into it when I go to glass in reinforcement material to the underside. I remember reading from another post that they didn't keep the curve to the cap and had to tear out everything that they did and redo it (NOT SOMETHING I WANT TO DO!). Also, I'm on the fence as to the casting platform - should I remove just the platform, cutting the "inner hull" near the platform and leaving the rest of it in there or pop the whole liner out, casting platform and all? I suppose that it would be easier just to tab the platform back in as opposed to reattaching the entire liner, but I wanted to check the opinion of others first.

Thanks for all of the help and I promise to put some pictures up soon! :)

[gran398]

Kate, welcome back!

Your first question, the cap ring.

Before you pull it, run some lines from established points down the cap, port and starboard. Measure from the string down to the cap at different points along the run....make notes of these distances, this is the curvature.

Get several sawhorses, lay the cap upside down on the sawhorses. You'll install blocks of varying height along the run, mimicking your measurements in reverse....everything will be upside-down, including the curvature. When you get the new core glassed in, you'll have a perfectly curved, stable ring cap.

Second question, casting platform.

You'll probably want to raise your deck an inch or so...so if you took out the casting deck with what is left of the side liners intact, you've kinda pigeon-holed yourself to keep factory deck height...that is, the side liners vary in curvature/geometry as they rise up the sides.
IMO you'll be better off separating the pieces. You can always dry fit what is left of the side inner liner when the time comes, see what kind of adjustments/slicing/dicing you'll need to make those two pieces work. They may work out fine and you can glue/glass them back in. You definitely want to save them, may save a bunch of time and money at the end.

The casting deck will fit fine regardless of where you end up on the cockpit deck height.

Like this but upside-down



Casting deck. You can core as necessary, foam/insulate the fishbox while it is out. There will be a little triangular piece of glassed plywood on the back, shiny as a silver dollar, imbedded since 1974. We left ours for posterity....only piece of wood on the boat



Best wishes and good luck Kate!

[Georgie]

With the passing of my Dad back in August

    Holy cow...you (and definitely HE) are both too young for that!  Sooo sorry, Kate.  I'm sure it's been too many months already to want to bring it up again, but know that this group will be VERY supportive and happy to help you distract yourself in a project to be completed in his memory.  

If I'm not mistaken, I think many of the guys here have redone their transoms with the cap still on so it helps retain proper shape.  I would think that should be your approach first, and THEN tackle the casting deck and cap.  Since you've already removed the stringers too, it's definitely a bit safer than stripping the ENTIRE boat down all at one time and leaving just a loose flimsy outer shell with little to no reinforcement.  Few more thoughts:  I'd recommend you use epoxy, or at least vinylester for the structural work b/c they bond so much better than poly, and I would probably also add another layer of heavy biax on the inside of the hull before removing the cap to help hold form and give a good, clean, new surface for bonding your new stringers. To me, keeping proper shape and minimizing future headaches with poor fits and misalignments when reinstalling the cap and possibly the casting deck would be crucial.  

That said, I've done my share of glasswork, understand basic physics, and feel fairly qualified to have experience-based opinions, but I've never tackled anything as big as a full scale rehab, so definitely trust the other guys actually doing the rebuilds b/c they have results and lessons learned to fall back on.

Welcome back!  

[KlassyKate]

Thanks, Georgie. My Dad was a month shy of his 89th birthday when he passed away and he lived a very full, honorable life. He was a pilot in WWII and the Korean War, a successful real estate business man, and the coolest "old guy" Dad a little girl could ask for. He was the one that got me into boats, buying me my first boat (the 1967 13' Boston Whaler) when I was 6 years old. That little boat means more to me than anything else and it lives in the garage while my $20K car sits outside. About a month after Dad passed, my Mom told me that he had left me some money to help get my boat project done and captain business going, with the only stipulation being that when I name my Aquasport that the name contains the letter "J" as my Dad's name is George Jeremy. I'm looking forward to the rest of this project as it will be a welcome, constant reminder of the man that got me started with this weird obsession for old boats. :)

I'm at a good point in the project where I'm starting to see the results of the tear down and getting ready to put in the new. The transom is totally ground out, soggy fiberglass spots and all. I'm bringing home cardboard from work tomorrow to make the template for the transom (hopefully on Tuesday) and go to the supply shop on Wednesday to get some Nida core, resin, and a ton of glass. So here are the questions that I need some help answering:

1. I'm planning on getting a 4x7 sheet of the 1.5" Nida core so that I don't have to laminate anything together. I'm planning on raising the transom to be level with the top of the gunnels - what matting do I need for the outside skin side? On the inside, do I need to do 3 layers of matting and of which type of matting? Also, do I use regular resin to bond the Nida core to the existing skin?
2. What is the "putty" that is used to fill in and round the corners to help the mat lay better?
3. I'd like to make the top of the transom curved as opposed to straight. What is the typical curve I should strive for?
4. Should I fill the holes in the transom before or after I put the core in?

Sorry I've got a million questions - I have been trying to educate myself on the process and the products used by looking at at least a dozen of the other builds but not all of them have a "list" per say of the items that were used.

Here is the most recent picture that I've taken. I've since ground out the corners better, removed the drain thru, and rinsed her all out.



I also realized that I need to look at this project one step at a time and not worry so much about the details of each section down the road. Finish one, get to the next. I need to try and get this thing done by April as we will hopefully be moving, however I won't have the covered boat house to work in anymore! Pressure is on!

[RickK]

Hi Kate, glad to see you back at it.
How are you going to finish the inside?  Gelcoat or paint?
1) If you want a stout rebuild I recommend epoxy on the main inside structure and then you can go with poly above the sole if you plan to gelcoat (I did this exact thing). If you plan to paint you can go with epoxy all the way. Epoxy is quite expensive but it is extremely tough, the strongest you can get.  Here is a link that you can study on how to do your transom http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=9991&hilit=ashley.  Eugene uses Poly for his rebuilds.
2) The putty is just a mixture of resin and cabosil and/or chopped fibers, mixed to a peanut butter consistency and applied with a rounded tool, usually made by taking a belt sander to a stir stick or slim piece of wider wood.
3) you can take a 1x2, clamp it on one end at the cap height and bow it it up enough to shed water - maybe an inch max and then clamp it on the other side.  Trace the curve onto your Nida.
4) Fill in the holes after, is how I did mine.  That way you grind them down at an angle and then fill them with several layers of chopped mat or even some thicker cloth if need be, before the mat, as a filler also.
There will be others stopping by with their POVs soon.  I offer how I am doing mine only.

[fitz73222]

Good job Kate,

Keep up the good work, if you're ADHD like I am, the best way is small segments at a time to give the sense of accomplishment. I just bought a '68 13' Whaler to go along with my '73 22-2 among other rides, so we are living in a parallel universe! If you're blond haired and blue eyed also, that would be really weird!

[CLM65]

What nida core product are you planning to use?  I'm not sure the honeycomb panels are suitable for transoms (but I could be wrong).  

The transom on my project 22-2 has a 1" curve.  That is the minimum I would do.  It is a very subtle curve.  I've seen some 2" curves that look good too.

Oh, and my 1st boat was a 13 foot whaler too.  I'd like to find one for my boys in the near future, as they are ready for their own boat now.  Plus that will keep them from asking for the keys to the 22-2

[seabob4]

Grew up on Lake Michigan with a Whaler 13...