gas tank replacement

[KenO250explorer]

thanks Guys,  appreciate all the detail.   For those who went for the surgery,   what was the end result?  Any structural comprises?   Reason I'm asking is the owner is going to fix the boat -  based upon what the yard see's when opening it up -  either a new tank or a repair (under the assumption it is a weld that went bad).   Interested in hearing your thoughts on this last point.

[seabob4]

thanks Guys,  appreciate all the detail.   For those who went for the surgery,   what was the end result?  Any structural comprises?   Reason I'm asking is the owner is going to fix the boat -  based upon what the yard see's when opening it up -  either a new tank or a repair (under the assumption it is a weld that went bad).   Interested in hearing your thoughts on this last point.

Structural compromises from a tank replacement?  No.  Tank repair?  That's an iffy.  10 gallons (if that's the actual amount +/- that leaked out) is a SIGNIFICANT amount of fuel, requiring a bit more than a pinhole to produce a leak of that magnitude.  Only removing the tank and doing the visual/pressure test will show what the real cause is.  The problem may be evident upon visual inspection, or the tank may require a pressure test using soapy water to show the defect.  If "they" decide to replace the tank, fine.  If they decide to fix it, demand to know all the details, what the problem was, how it possibly occurred, what's the condition of the rest of the tank, and what's their course of action.  Pictures throughout the whole process.  After all, should you decide to go through with the purchase, it's YOUR tank, and you have to live with what THEY did...

[slvrlng]

I have heard of the gas in the rodholder deal for years. I actually got to experience it last summer on my boat. With the VRO disconnected on the 94 175 I have been mixing as I fill the tank. My friend (who shall remain nameless) asked to "help" after I had already put 10 gallons in. I use one of the Seachoice liter bottles that have the different ratios on the side. I usually put enough oil in for 10 gals of fuel and then pour this into a 1 1/2 gal gas can and top off with gas. Shake it up then put 3 gals of gas and then about 1/3 of the gas can in then keep going with this procedure until the small tank is empty and I have reached 10 gallons on the pump. I then repeat this until the main tank is full. After the first 10 gals. I mixed the oil and gas in the small tank and this is when my friend asked if he could help. I told him to put about 4 gals in and then I will pour the mix in. As I am shaking the small can I start smelling gas really strong! I lean over the gunwale and there is a fountain of gas pouring out the rodholder! I yell stop and get Bridget to run to the store and tell them we have a spill. He ran 4 gallons out onto the deck which proceeded to melt part of the cooler seat onto the deck. There was fuel pouring out the scuppers and onto the ground for about five minutes and then out across the parking lot. The guy from the store comes running out with a 5 gallon bucket and dawn soap and we mix up then dump it all over the boat to rinse it out and get it off the gelcoat. The store personnel didn't try to put any absorbent on the spill they said it was easier to just let it evaporate. The craziest thing is what the gas did to the pingpong ball scuppers, I think they are made of polycarbonate. They turned white and when Bridget noticed the color and touched them they just fell to pieces.

Lesson learned!!!

I alone now fill the boat!!!!

[seabob4]

I'm going to ask again...have "they" pressure tested the tank?  The requirements for tank pressurization are that the tank MUST hold 3 PSI for a minimum of 14 minutes...the time element increases as the tankage becomes larger, i.e. 200 gallon tanks have to hold that pressure longer than 100 gallon tanks.

Even the smallest of pinholes will produce a pressure drop over that time span.  That's the reason ABYC requires the significant time element...

[wingtime]

OK here is my take on it.  The outcome of this can go two ways again.  Either the yard will do a great job cutting the deck and replacing the fuel tank and "cover".  Or they will do a total hack job on it.

Here is what I feel is the proper and best way to go about this on a Explorer:

The Explorer has molded in lines in the floor over the fuel tank.  At one time older Aquasports had an actual fuel tank access cover there.  But to save $$$$ they reduced the lid into some molded in lines in the floor.  This makes access to the tank rather easy. The floor should be masked off along the cut lines.  The opening should be carefully cut with the proper tool to get a nice straight cut line.  This is NOT the job for a sawz-all!  I believe there should not be any coring in the floor under the molded in line.  If there is a core it most likely is balsa wood.  The core should be trimmed back between the layers of the deck and "lid" say a 1/4" or so.  Then the edges should be sealed with epoxy thickened with milled fibers.  This is VERY important.  If this isn't done in time water will work it's way into the coring of the deck and rot it out.  A lip of some sort may have to be constructed to support the tank "lid" around the edges of the hole.  3/4" starboard would be perfect for this.  After the tank is inspected it should be reinstalled using the "Pascoe" Method http://yachtsurvey.com/fueltank.htm  Don't let them foam it in.  Of course all screws should be properly sealed with 5200 and the tank lid sealed with silicone.  

Of course a hack job would be a sloppy job cutting the deck.  Exposing the core material and not sealing it up with epoxy.  Simply sealing the cut with caulk is not going to cut it.  The deck will start to rot out in just a year or so.  The guy selling the boat is not going to be happy about paying the $$$$ required to do the job properly.  He just wants to get the boat sell able.  Then again maybe he will do it right.... if he knows better.

If I was going to buy the boat I would want to see the stages of the repair in person.  and I'd especially want to see the tank install before the deck is closed back up.

[Bergertime]

Some very good advice here.. The first thing I would do is demand a pressure test.  If the tank fails then walk away.  Trust me as a person who has done the replacement..  It's not worth it (especially if you don't even own it) unless they are going to basically give you the boat after.  For me, I was gonna do an entire floor replacement anyway and the tank would have been replaced as a matter of practicality in tandem...  My leak just pushed up my timetable.  Take your time and look for another AS Explorer if you really want one.  The headache of dealing with the aftermath and the risk of other issues /botched install is just not worth it.  

Wing is right- the cutting is fairly straight forward (location wise) but if you already have soft floors then that complicate the decision on mending the deck vs. replacement.

PS.  You frequently see AS Explorers for sale down here in Fla.. The transport cost could be a drop in the bucket to the headache and cost of issue arising out of a failed repair.

If you want to talk via the phone, PM me and I'll send you my cell.  Good Luck.

B

[CLM65]

I have to agree with the guys on this one.  My only additional suggestion, if you really like this particular boat, is to get a quote on what it will cost to fix it right (worst case, with tank replacement).  Then subtract that from the price of the boat.  That way you can arrange the repair, and ensure it is fixed right, as most people will do it as cheap as possible if they just trying to sell it.  Good luck!

[KenO250explorer]

thanks all for the good info /detail and advice  -  here's the latest -   the owner has repaired the tank - accomplished by welding in two formed pieces over the area where it was leaking (end caps on the bottom).   Welds look very professional and very clearn.   Aside from these two areas, the tank looks new.    To test it,  they fully filled it with water and it is has held for the past 3 days w/ no issues.   I'll look at the url you've provided to get a sense of the recomended re-installation -   and will pass that onto the surveyor and the yard who's doing the work.

If I do not move forward w/ the boat,  at least, if the recommendations are followed,  the next owner won't be in too bad a position.

[gran398]

Just now read your post start to finish.

I'd walk. That tank would always be in the back of my mind. They took the easy way out, welded on a scarf and called it good...the crack is still there, and now the tank has a bunch of extra welds.

There are plenty more out there. Wingtime can attest to the value of patience  

[Capt. Bob]

thanks all for the good info /detail and advice  -  here's the latest -   the owner has repaired the tank - accomplished by welding in two formed pieces over the area where it was leaking (end caps on the bottom).   Welds look very professional and very clearn.   Aside from these two areas, the tank looks new.    To test it,  they fully filled it with water and it is has held for the past 3 days w/ no issues.   I'll look at the url you've provided to get a sense of the recomended re-installation -   and will pass that onto the surveyor and the yard who's doing the work.

If I do not move forward w/ the boat,  at least, if the recommendations are followed,  the next owner won't be in too bad a position.

OK, so they have cut the deck and removed the tank.  

Was the tank foamed in (like BT's)?
The bottom is free of corrosion?
If so................

I'd be interested in the re-install. Tank coffin (below deck) clean and support of tank.
Also ask if they plan on just re-glassing in the deck or actually creating an tank access hatch.

Good luck.

[seabob4]

I'd walk again...

[redemn93]

just a band-aide to get the boat sold.  find another one.

[KenO250explorer]

hi guys,  more details for your reading pleasure  -  tank was pressure tested by the machine shop doing the work ,   tank was filled and has held 141 gallons of water with no loss.   Tank is being re-installed with starboard supports, close celled foam,   proper holes in the area to ensure drainage and the lid that was cut out is being made into a hatch.    ends are being sealed,   any screws used are 5200'd in and hoses being replaced.  

Thanks again for your input's -  very helpful and informative.    

KO

[Capt. Bob]

tank was pressure tested by the machine shop doing the work ,   tank was filled and has held 141 gallons of water with no loss. KO

First off then, good luck. 8)

Second, because I'm screwy about this stuff, remember while water molecules are indeed smaller than hydrocarbon molecules (fuel) they need a larger hole than fuel to pass. This has nothing to do with size (if it did it wouldn't make sense)but rather the physical property of surface tension (think meniscus;yes I too can be a name dropper). The surface tension of water is far greater than fuel and therefore requires a larger opening to traverse from one side to the other (think leak). Probably why they usually pressure test with air.  

I do doubt it really matters in this case so........

Here endith the junior high general science class for the day (yes Virgina, religion and science can indeed share the same sentence)

If you could get some pics, that would be great but again,

Good luck.

[seabob4]

Get them to warranty the work for 5 years and run with it...