replacing fuel fill and vent lines

[HeavyDinSC]

Dear Aquasporters,
I'm replacing the fuel tank on my 170 and am having the same issues a lot of guys have had with foamed in fuel fill and vent lines. I've tried the comealong, but can't budge the fill line. It's a 1.5 inch inner diameter hose. I'm hesitant to start cutting into the bulwark or even the enlarging the holes in the coffin. So, my question is, what's the consensus regarding simply running a new, smaller diameter fill line through the existing one. I will probably have to resort to using a funnel when I fill up the tank, but wouldn't that be an easier approach, and one that would ultimately provide better protection for the smaller fill line from wear and tear?
Thanks in advance for any advice on this.
HeavyDinSC

[gran398]

Not what you want to hear, but take it out. Even the stock size hoses will pump slow on occasion.

Try twisting it in the same direction with a couple pairs of vice grips. Or, drill a hole or two through the hose and run a metal bar/big screwdriver through the hose to act as a twist point. You can also cut some glass out of the tank coffin where the fill hose enters, and work a machete up in there.

The foam holding it in is directly beneath the deck, outboard of the stringer.

[HeavyDinSC]

Thanks for the suggestions Public Relations. I'll try the twist method with drilled holes and a big screwdriver. Can you tell me, what's the downside of going with a smaller diameter fill hose and housing that inside the existing old hose? I realize that this will make filling the tank a slower process, but other than that, is there a problem with this approach.
HeavyDinSC

[gran398]

Went over to our member Nick's house this afternoon to help him pull out the old fuel hose on his 170 Osprey. (See thread)
We went with the drill method....inserted a round metal rod through the hose at the tank coffin and twisted a few revolutions. Freed it right up.

We both pulled on the tank end, started sliding....but we didn't have the new hose yet, wanted to use the old hose to pull the new through.

The existing hose is only 1.5 inches inside diameter. It is thick walled gas-approved hose. By the time you put a smaller diameter thick walled gas-approved hose in... a gas station nozzle wouldn't fit in there. You'd probably be down to around 3/4 ID.

[HeavyDinSC]

Gran 398,
Thanks. Haven't yet tried the twist approach, but I will. That thread you mentioned, is there a link for it?
HeavyDinSC

[gran398]

Sure enuff.

Nick took some pics, hopefully we'll see 'em soon

http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=11682.0

One thing to mention. When you take the deck fill off, shine a light down in there. You want to try and shove the base of the hose towards the stern. It tends to be pinched where it was....so take a piece of pipe, etc. and shove it back. Just a tad more room. Also take that inspection plate near the gunnel completely off, run the hose back out of that hole.

[CLM65]

Thanks for the suggestions Public Relations. I'll try the twist method with drilled holes and a big screwdriver. Can you tell me, what's the downside of going with a smaller diameter fill hose and housing that inside the existing old hose? I realize that this will make filling the tank a slower process, but other than that, is there a problem with this approach.
HeavyDinSC

I imagine the biggest hose you can fit inside the original 1.5" is 1", and that would probably be tight.  A 1" hose doesn't sound a whole lot smaller than a 1.5" hose, but the open area is less than 50% of the bigger hose, which will result in a much slower fill rate.  You may not mind the slower fill rate at first, but I bet over the long term it will be a major nuisance.  Plus you will need to transition from 1.5" at the deck fill fitting to the 1" hose, and then back to 1.5" at the tank.  IMO, too many joints (i.e., potential leak sites) for a fuel line.

I suggest going with Scotty's (gran398's) advice and muscle that thing out.

[HeavyDinSC]

Craig,
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll be trying that tomorrow.
Actually, my thought about inserting a smaller hose inside the existing fill hose would be to run that new one all the way into the tank. If I did this, I'd also hook the original up to the fill elbow on the tank and to the deck fill fitting. There wouldn't be any joints. Hopefully, I can get the old hose to budge and I won't have to try that.

Thanks again.

[Georgie]

If the foam is the entire reason you can't remove the old hose, then following/chasing the old with a new will be even more difficult since there's no easy way to join the butt ends of the two without somehow increasing the diameter.  Despite popular opinion, the fill hoses don't "automatically" need to be replaced since they're large diameter, reinforced, and they're not under pressure at any point in time.  All they need to do is convey fresh fuel to the tank with gravity's assistance and without incident. Unless you're doing a considerable rebuild job, I'd only consider replacing the hose if the terminal ends are severely cracked, and trimming either end results in a hose that's too short to reconnect.  If you ultimately have to replace the hose, then make sure you have a second set of hands... it's usually not a one-man-job; especially if you have floatation foam surrounding the existing hose that you need to replace.

Good luck!

[HeavyDinSC]

Ryan,
Thanks for your thoughts on this. I believe I've read on this site (and possibly elsewhere) that some hoses are subject to interior degradation due to ethanol in the fuel. That was my original reason for replacing the fuel fill hose. Can anyone weigh in here with insight on that issue?
Thanks again for all of the guidance guys.

[gran398]

After twisting, the hose on the '87 was crumbling, as you say probably due to ethanol. Hopefully pics soon on the other thread.

[Georgie]

some hoses are subject to interior degradation due to ethanol in the fuel.

Correct.  However, the problematic hoses are usually the fuel delivery hoses that carry the fuel from the fuel tank to the engine.  Because of the way the hoses are routed under the deck, there will invariably be bellies and sags which hold fuel for extended periods of time, and if your tank has an anti-siphon valve, then the entire length of fuel delivery hose stays airlocked and full of fuel.  The fill hose is an entirely different animal because it is routed more vertically from gunwale to the tank, is NOT airlocked, and if installed properly there are no sags where fuel will sit for extended periods of time, thus it experiences far less exposure to ethanol and less associated deterioration.   That and the fact that any gunk carried into the tank from the fill hose will be picked up further downstream by your fuel filter.  The only absolutley critical section of hose to change out to the ethanol resistant stuff is the section that runs from your fuel filter to the engine.  

That said, make the determination to replace or not based on the actual condition of your own fill hose, not based on my comments .  If it's bad (cracked, swollen, dry rotted, peeling, kinked, split, etc.) then it's bad, but if not, I personally wouldn't go through the trouble to replace it,  unless you've already gone so far that there's no turning back.  

 

[gran398]

Heavy,

What year is your 170?

[Capt. Bob]

I'll guess.

1986

[Keith Knecht]

If you will do a search for "gas filler hose on 222 ccp" and go to the second page, you will find a post by coverhill that shows a picture of the area that he cut for a pie access panel which is the same thing that I had to do.   It doesn't look that bad and it will make the job possible.  Still not easy even with the additional access point.