Opinions needed on 80's-90's Aquasports

[Georgie]

Anyone with motor choice advice??????????

LOTS of variables to consider so it's hard to provide much in the way of recommendations... I personally run the OMC 112 special crossflow but that's because I have a ton of parts, have no $$, appreciate the simplicity of the design, and like tinkering with them.  

I guess two of the primary factors to guide you are: a) how much $$ you have to spend, and b) how capable/inclined you are to do your own repairs or maintenance and/or learn as you go.  If there's $$ to spare or you can't/won't do the work on the engine, then getting a newer freshwater engine that some bass fisherman just upgraded and starting it on a religious service regimen is a great option.  If $$ is in short supply or you're mechanically inclined, then getting a running older carburated engine that's in good shape might be an option, with the caveat that you'll probably constantly be "updating" or "fixing" things as time passes; sometimes voluntarily, sometimes out of necessity.

Our members here generally seem to rate the mercury opti-max as the favorite new 2 stroke engine, and the Suzuki as the favorite 4-stroke, but a ton of us also run older Mercs, OMC's, and Yammies.

[Circle Hooked]

In fact, the front runner is powered by a 140 Johnson four stroke.

Well someone has to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2gIdMRwfuM

[Aquamaniac]

HAHAHA....too funny!

But on a serious note....what percentage of these pre 08 Johnsons had disaster?
For that matter....can you give me a good idea of the worst case scenario cost? Well..... other than new motor!
Reason being, the package with the 04 Johnson seems to be top contender after making the rounds today.
However, when I asked owner if plug had already been changed, he had no idea about the issue. Motor has a lot (1500) of hrs in salt (Keys). Had no tools to disassemble and check while I was there.
Am I going out on a limb biting for it?      
Need to let them know tonight!

[seabob4]

Not my $$, so easy for me to say...GO FOR IT!!!  

[MarshMarlowe196]

HAHAHA....too funny!

But on a serious note....what percentage of these pre 08 Johnsons had disaster?
For that matter....can you give me a good idea of the worst case scenario cost? Well..... other than new motor!
Reason being, the package with the 04 Johnson seems to be top contender after making the rounds today.
However, when I asked owner if plug had already been changed, he had no idea about the issue. Motor has a lot (1500) of hrs in salt (Keys). Had no tools to disassemble and check while I was there.
Am I going out on a limb biting for it?      
Need to let them know tonight!

Hard to say with any certainty how many of these pre 08' motors had this issue.  Here's a thread on THT with a fair amount of people reporting the same corrosion.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... blems.html

 I would guess they all will eventually have this issue unless the plug is changed or welded. You can check the motor in question pretty easily with some simple tools.

If you're really interested in this boat, next time you look at it, bring an 8mm socket with a long 1/4" extension and a 1/4" drive ratchet. Also bring some assorted Allen keys. I don't know what size Allen drive it is because I don't have this plug on my engine.

Remove the cowl, pull up the rubber cowl gasket. Then remove all the 8mm drive bolts that hold the starboard side engine cover on. Set that cover aside. Then, remove the port side cover. There's a wiring harness on this side connected to the engine trim switch, but you can leave the wiring connected and just move the cover out of the way enough to gain access to the plug in question.

Then, the moment of truth. Try to remove the O2 plug with the right Allen key. If it comes out without too much trouble, you should be fine. If not, its anyone's guess as the extent of the corrosion lurking inside the engine holder bracket.

Worst case scenario: $1800 including labor for a new engine holder bracket

Best case scenario: $3 for an aluminum plug from eBay

 I really hope you don't find this problem, because this is an otherwise excellent engine.

[Circle Hooked]

IMHO, 1500 hr's scares me, don't know what your looking to spend but there are alot of boats out there especially in this area.

[slvrlng]

The last time I was in Englewood there was a 200 for sale over on S. Oxford just north of McCall. I think it was around a 94 or 95. Can't remember what the guy wanted. It was in really decent shape.

Here is one just south of you. Looks pretty turnkey to me. Bow cushions, bimini, trolling motor, mangroves, snook. I know a couple of numbers in Lemon Bay if you want them.

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1994- ... -102170670

If you want a little softer ride. They do mention turnkey!

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/col/boa/4301176344.html

[Aquamaniac]

Hmmmm.....so 1500 hrs is scary?
What is expected life on this motor if maintained well ?????
Seller says it was flushed each time, never stored down in water, and regularly maintained. Even noted spare fuel filter in leaning post storage.

slvring: thanks for the link....will check it out. Newer, cleaner, and lots more $. Also not sure what electronics included. Will try to get up with them today. Was the boat in Englewood just parked at a residence 'for sale'? Will have to run over that way!
Numbers in Lemon Bay....sure! PM me......thanks!

Here's my thinking......the package I am pretty committed to at this point includes a lot of extras (not even including float on trailer!)that quickly add up. If considered separately, they would total over two grand !! The total pkg (boat, trailer, and goodies) is about $2500 less than the newer boat in slvring's link .....so seems like a bargain!!!! Basically hoping I won't have to eat a major repair soon, but seems I'd be somewhat ok even if I do end up having to find another motor (ouch!)

BTW......if I understand correctly, total corrosion would result in an exhaust leak near the dreaded plug....correct? This would not leave me dead in the water out in the gulf, would it? Seller agreed to let me inspect plug prior to money changing hands.....but honestly....sure seems likely the cancer is already there with lots of hrs in salt :(

[seabob4]

Properly maintained, 1500 hrs isn't unreasonable...most likely the reason it IS running excellent at those hours is because the care was given to it.

If anybody here remembers that thread from a few years back on THT, the crab boat in Louisiana running a Zuke 250, cowling and midsection looked like absolute hell, the motor had over 7500 hours on it...and still running strong!  

[fitz73222]

Rarely do I try to influence someone as to what brand of engine to purchase so I'll just point out trends instead. Engines built in the last 10-15 years are quite complex and expensive to fix. Mechanically, outboards are pretty much the same as 30 years ago. a powerhead is a powerhead and a gearcase is a gearcase, trim unit, etc. etc. The money is in the engine controls and electronic systems. There simply isn't enough volume to create a competitive market for these critical components so aftermarket parts with a couple of exceptions is very limited and the OEM's are quite happy obsoleting their own engines in 10 years by jacking replacement electronic component costs up to the clouds; they're in the business of selling us new engines and only laws make them supply parts for 7-10 years after manufacture date. So the day of tinkering with my 2002 brand X fuel injected, ECU controlled engine is no longer. Other than basic maintenance you're at the mercy of the dealer or other "qualified" shop. That said, finding a clean used carbureted engine from the mid 90's to early 00's is quite acceptable as an option. The aftermarket and used parts supply is huge and other than a major mechanical failure these engines are relatively inexpensive to repair compared to newer models. I'm fortunate enough to have the resources and ability to fix anything on my engines but it's mainly because I choose 1947-2000 for all the engines I own. So I completely agree with Georgie that older can be great value and even better if you can do the work yourself. And feel free to choose any brand engine you want as longs as its black

[Circle Hooked]

Hmmmm.....so 1500 hrs is scary?
What is expected life on this motor if maintained well ?????
Seller says it was flushed each time, never stored down in water, and regularly maintained. Even noted spare fuel filter in leaning post storage.

1500 hr's is scary to me unless there is documentation of how it's been serviced it's whole life, what the seller told you may be true but as we all know buying something used is always a gamble and some people will say anything to sell something.

[gran398]

Hmmmm.....so 1500 hrs is scary?
What is expected life on this motor if maintained well ?????
Seller says it was flushed each time, never stored down in water, and regularly maintained. Even noted spare fuel filter in leaning post storage.

1500 hr's is scary to me unless there is documentation of how it's been serviced it's whole life, what the seller told you may be true but as we all know buying something used is always a gamble and some people will say anything to sell something.

Back around 1968 dad bought a used four door Chevy Impala.

Will never forget that car...white with a red interior.

The used car salesman told dad a widow lady had owned it, and only drove it to church on Sundays.

About a month after we had it, dad found a half a fifth of gin under the front seat.

 

[Aquamaniac]

Well to tell the truth, I have been struggling with this process......certainly in part for the points just made. Like most anyone, I am after the most boat for the least money. Have learned a LOT for this forum and THT....so feel reasonably better that I can spot at least glaring issues. Just not in a great position to really go through each boat, motor, and trailer the way it should be done. Can't realistically check hull weight, and don't have all my tools down here to check compression, oil pressure, etc.

However,,,,have agreed boat is mine pending final checks that I can do.

The good:
Overall boat seems sound and well cared for. Owner was CG Auxillary.
               All hatches and deck good (although see note below)...even good hinges
               Fuel tank and lines replaced 3yrs ago
               T top with launchers
               Console in nice shape. Good teak.
               Great electronics (Garmin chart and sonar), VHF, all pumps etc. working
               CMC Powerlift jack (although manual, not hyd)
               Lots of extras like livewell, 3 outriggers, downrigger, pushpole, 2 anchors/chains&ropes, CG stuff, flush muffs,etc.

The questionable:  
2004 Johnson/Suzuki 4 stroke with 1500hr
                          only single axle (torsion) trailer Float On  (sure would rather DA)
                          unable to really assess transom well since large metal plate on inside that jack bolts through T into
                          one ding (slight bend) in bow rail

The bad:  
Leaning post frame has corrosion in both corners where seat contacted it
               slightly soft area in front of leaning post in fuel tank hatch
               
I think with some elbow grease the inside and outside would clean up/buff up well. Will look for advice on fixing a few spiders, and detailing tricks!

All in all, does come down to a gamble......
For the whole enchilada......what would you folks say.....was neighborhood of $5K reasonable ?????????

[Blue Agave]

Be patient, there is always another deal around the corner.

http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/boa/4287268978.html

[Aquamaniac]

No denying that......but you can sit in limbo forever waiting for the perfect deal......or pull the trigger when a reasonable deal presents itself. Just pretty tough to be absolutely sure whenever you DO pull the trigger.....even with reasonable 'due diligence'.....
I have looked at a number of these and each seems to have its own pluses and minuses. After all, we're talking about a boat that is almost 30 years old. This one seemed to be the best of the litter.....but you are right....the perfect boat at a give away price might turn up tomorrow....or not. :(
I figure I will keep my fingers crossed, try to run it with no problems, fix what needs fixing, and enjoy both processes. After all, I was considering a true project boat...and that would be all fixing and no running for a good long while! Since I suspect a recore of the coffin lid is on the docket..... I'll get my feet wet on the whole rebuild thing. :|
I'll make a last 'check' and can renegotiate or back out if I find something disastrous......so stay tuned.
Any words of wisdom to help me on that 'check' are welcome.