Another 1986 222 Osprey Rebuild

[budmanbud]

Hello Dane,

I've enjoyed watching your progress on your rebuild. I've been working on modifying my own 1986 222 and thought I'd tell you something about my experience and perhaps learn something from yours. I'm wondering if you've yet mounted the Porta Bracket and motor and put it in the water yet and if so, how she sits.
I had my transom gauged out and repaired and filled with coosa, partially but not fully enclosed. (We dive / snorkel off of it in FL Keys so didn't want to make the ingress too challenging for some of my guests). I too chose a Porta Lift, as I wanted to get the engine out of the boat, but ended up with the 21" setback model (used) rather than the (correct) 17" model which I believe you have. I think this additional 4" of arm really matters (to the not good). Just to add even more weight back there I added a PowerPole on a bracket attached to the Porta Lift (as opposed to mounting it on the transom which would have put that weight nearer to the CG / fulcrum). Added 12' 12" trim tabs. Then to top it off, all of the pumps, actuators etc to make these three new toys work were mounted to the mechanics cabinet just inside the stern rather than fwd into the console. The two batteries and main 2-cycle oil resevoir for my newly-acquired 2004 200 HPDI are in there and there not really room for anything else. Original gas tank was replaced with something smaller (44 gal?) and pushed as far fwd as possible. That apparently was not enough of an offset to the weight that's now in the back, 21" out of the boat.
The result is a wet boat that now sits very stern-low in the water with the top of the scuppers (through the stern as in the original) always a min of 2" below the waterline. Without plugs in the rear (inserted from the outside) water is constantly coming into the rear and flooding the aft 12" of the deck. I'm having to constantly manually bail it to keep it dry otherwise everyone in the back is standing in water. Having everybody move to the bow so it'll drain a little makes it kind of difficult for fishing. When the days done I cant really wash it down because the rinse water won't drain out the back (unless I get two of my largest friends to stand on the bow with me while I try to wash it down from up there.
The guy that did the fiberglass work for me is an Aquasport expert and did a fine job on the modifications but I think I have a serious configuration W&B issue now with a boat that is no longer anywhere near self-bailing. Beyond the obvious potential remedies (lose the Porta Bracket and mount the motor on a narrow bracket or on the stern with a 4" wide jack plate and mount the PowerPole on the stern) I am looking for ideas on how to get water off the deck (without draining it down into the bilge where I would then be relying on bilge and batteries to contactly bail me out (not good). He originally suggested scuppers out the side but honestly they would have to be so far forward that any water aft of the console would still run to the back of the deck and accumulate there.
 Any suggestions based on your experience or those of any other members would be much appreciated. At this point I feel I've spend a lot of money taking a boat that I've enjoyed for 27 years (since new) and turned it onto something that aggravates me and that I don't much like anymore.

Many thanks,

Bud Calloway
Pine Island, FL

[CLM65]

Bud,

You may want to start your own thread since you have an interesting dilemma that warrants its own attention.  But here are just a couple my thoughts...
1.  gas tank location may make a difference on how the boat sits, but IMO moving the tank forward to offset a porta bracket is not a true fix.  I say that because the weight of the fuel is a transient weight.  In other words, it will not be full all the time, so you can't rely on the fuel to balance the boat.  IMO, the tank really should be at the COG of the boat, so that the attitude of the boat is unaffected by the amount of fuel in the boat.
2.  A permanent change in weight distribution is what you ideally want.  This can be done by reducing weight off the back (i.e., lighter motor or shorter bracket).  I'm not sure how much a power pole weighs, but I can't imagine it is very heavy.  You may be able to remove it just see if it makes a difference.  It sounds like you need a fairly significant change.
3.  Assuming you don't want a smaller/lighter motor or a shorter bracket, the next option would be to move existing weight towards the front.  Is it possible to move your batteries forward, and mount them under your casting deck?  Obviously you will need longer cables, but should be pretty easy if you have the room.  You can easily test the impact of this by just setting the batteries on the casting deck.  I believe many people also move their consoles forward to help offset the porta brackets.  Is that a possibility for you?
4.  You can add those ping pong ball scupper covers to your transom thru hulls.  They may not completely stop the inrush of water, but they should at least slow it down.
5.  Just out of curiosity, when your boat was rebuilt, was the deck raised or the foam replaced?  I ask because I am rebuilding a flatback now and am replacing foam as well as raising the deck.  I'm hoping to avoid the issues you are experiencing, as quite honestly I am a little nervous about weight distribution for those very reasons.
6.  Nice looking boat!

Good luck!

[budmanbud]

Craig,

I went back and read your post and realized that I did not answer a couple of your questions.

1.) I did not raise the deck as it's in pretty good shape and imo the gunwhales are low enough already.
2.) New foam (coosa) was laid into the transom after the old soft wood was cut out. Otherwise nothing was done wrt to new or additional foam. The work recently done on my boat would be classified as modifications vs. a major rebuild which is what Dane and many others are doing. My boat was in pretty good shape to begin with. I bought it new from the Keys Sea Center in Big Pine Key in 1986 and had it repainted in and out in 2007; originally powered by a new '85 pre-looper Evinrude 175 HP which burnt the power head up when the VRO pump failed.

One thing is really like about the changes I've made lately is the '04 200 HP HPDI; it runs great and doesn't use nearly as much oil as I was using in premixing 50:1 for my old '93 carb Yamaha (which I had disabled the oil injection on). One of the reasons I stayed with a 2 stroke was to safe weight in the stern vs. the weight of a 4 stroke.

Thanks again,

Bud

[dburr]

Hi Bud

With a water line shift of -3 inches it is a safe guess that you are going to have to do something big.. If you use the math example in Eric's build 246 diesel inboard it's seems as though its gonna be A PILE of weight with the motor that far back..


 If you keep the same bracket what about offsetting it with bait boxes like Scotty has on Miss D EXCEPT have that boxes dry/foam filled? 430+ of motor 21 inches aft of the stern is gonna be a real challenge to offset.

Sea water at 64.1# per cubic foot, 430lb motor would be like 6.7 cubic feet/2 boxes maybe?  Just a though and not a real good one at that.. Be some big boxes......

You have my condolences!! :(

[budmanbud]

Thanks for your post, Dave. I found Scotty's thread on the Miss D and checked out the bait boxes. Probably not the right solution for me as we use my boat for snorkeling and swimming as well as for fishing. I have thought about an Armstrong type bracket that supposedly has some bouyancy (sp?) benefits but would also set the motor back and add some weight so not sure what net benefit I would derive from that. It's too bad that the only way to these ideas is to go to the trouble of installing / implementing them and then dropping it in the water. Sort of an expensive process of elimination. This forum potentially provides some valuable information on what others may have tried and what results they experienced. I'm still interested in knowing whats Dane's experience has been with his Porta bracket engine installation; as I said before based upon my own experience I'm not sure that such a long setback of the motor aft of the stern is a good idea on these hulls.
What a nice refurb the Miss D turned out to be! I would like to learn more from Scotty or Bob about where the new/replacement console came from, as that may be where I go next on my own project. Among other benefits it might allow me to put some of the accumulators, pumps, motors, etc presently installed in the mechanics cabinet just fwd of the stern.


Bud Calloway
Pine Island FL
1986 222 being modified

[dburr]

PM sent

[Cyclops69]

Have you tried the quick fixes like moving the batteries and the oil res to the console. Also if you do the boxes and foam fill them they would double as nice swim platforms for the diving and snorkeling. Also I saw a porta bracket that was cut down at a machine shop here in Stuart from 21 to 16 inches I believe. That may be a more simple solution for your to much weight in the rear issues.  If you do go the Armstrong route they do make a positive flotation bracket that also gives you a nice platform on the back. Just my .02

[gran398]

Thanks for your post, Dave. I found Scotty's thread on the Miss D and checked out the bait boxes. Probably not the right solution for me as we use my boat for snorkeling and swimming as well as for fishing. I have thought about an Armstrong type bracket that supposedly has some bouyancy (sp?) benefits but would also set the motor back and add some weight so not sure what net benefit I would derive from that. It's too bad that the only way to these ideas is to go to the trouble of installing / implementing them and then dropping it in the water. Sort of an expensive process of elimination. This forum potentially provides some valuable information on what others may have tried and what results they experienced. I'm still interested in knowing whats Dane's experience has been with his Porta bracket engine installation; as I said before based upon my own experience I'm not sure that such a long setback of the motor aft of the stern is a good idea on these hulls.
What a nice refurb the Miss D turned out to be! I would like to learn more from Scotty or Bob about where the new/replacement console came from, as that may be where I go next on my own project. Among other benefits it might allow me to put some of the accumulators, pumps, motors, etc presently installed in the mechanics cabinet just fwd of the stern.


Bud Calloway
Pine Island FL
1986 222 being modified

Hi Bud, thanks for the compliments, and happy to help. Send a PM with your contact info..tx!

[Capt Matt]

What about raising the floor?
Capt matt