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Author Topic: When to throw in the towel? Steering Issue.  (Read 1135 times)

May 05, 2013, 08:08:29 AM
Read 1135 times

alandry100

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When to throw in the towel? Steering Issue.
« on: May 05, 2013, 08:08:29 AM »
I have a steering issue. I know this has been covered but I may be exhausting my options/abilities.

I have:
Removed control arm and the engine turns freely.
Disengaged cable from engine (image 1) and can pull out until it reaches the end of it's travel. (wheel spins)
Sprayed PB blaster in the port side (image 2).
Whacked with hammer (lots of whacking) - not any movement at all.
Tried twisting - no movement.
Heating  and spraying PB- just the port side - was nervous about melting something on the other side or the middle.
Bottle Jack - couldn't get an in line angle.

How do I keep the end from mushrooming - wood just dents. Will filling the hole in the control arm with a bolt prevent that?

Is there anything else I can do that I haven't thought of?

Could I put vice grips on the nut that holds the tube on the starboard side (image 1) and a screwdriver or crescent wrench on the control arm end (image 2) and break in opposite directions. I would use the vice grips to make sure the tube doesn't spin.






79\' 170
2005 Yamaha 70 two stroke

May 05, 2013, 09:34:14 AM
Reply #1

Georgie

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Re: When to throw in the towel?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2013, 09:34:14 AM »
Just looking at the clean condition of your steering cable and the fact that you have what appears to be  seal/wiper not on the port side which prevents excessive water from getting into the steering tube, it's surprising you're having steering cable problems.  What a bummer.  I just replaced mine on my 18 wellcraft two weeks ago.  Never a fun process; had to unmount the engine entirely and slide it back and forth along the transom in  order to create clearance to remove the cable.  :evil:

I've lost a cable or two over the years to tempermental tubes.  Sometimes there's just no salvaging the assembly, but here are a few things:

Twisting has never been an effective approach for me.  I know of no effective way to grab the stainless shaft at the port or starboard end without crushing it or marring it so much that it's not reusable.  Rememeber the stainless shaft is hollow and the metal is only about 1/8" thick!  But I'm all ears if someone out there has a trick for this.  You can't twist on the end of the shaft b/c the steering linkage mounting piece at the end of the shaft swivels, so you'd have no leverage.

When hammering on the port end of the shaft, make sure the starboard side nut is removed, and the rest of the steering linkage running to the steering arm is removed so you can get the large seal/wiper nut off the steering shaft, and yes, definitely fit a bolt of matching diameter into the small hole at the end of the shaft.  It's easier to grind down any mushrooming at the end with a dremel than it is to re-drill the hole if it get's deformed or the sidewalls get crushed.  Removing the seal nut also gives you better access for lubricants/PB Blaster, etc.  If the wood block is cushioning the impact too much, a mini-sledge applied directly to the end of the steering shaft may provide the extra force to make the difference, but obviously this significantly icreases your odds of mushrooming or deforming the piece, so it's kind of a last resort, though it sounds like you're getting close to that point.

Don't be afraid to torch the center section of the steering tube.  Assuming it's built the same as the OMC tubes I've worked with, there's nothing in there that can be hurt by the heat other than perhaps some enamel, but at the starboard end you do risk melting the cable insulation.  It's likely that whatever is binding your assembly is closer to the port side anyway.  Alternately heating the center of the tube and spraying the opening at the port end may draw a significant amount of the penetrant into the tube which could help.  You can tell it's working if you're torching the center and you see air bubbling out between the shaft and the tube at the port end.

If you can't free the cable, ultimately you'll have to brace your engine in position and remove the tilt tube nuts so you can slide out the whole tilt tube/steering cable assembly and replace with new.    Fingeres crossed you don't have to go that far.

Good luck!
Ryan

1979 246 CCC

1987 Wellcraft 18 Fisherman

May 05, 2013, 11:38:38 AM
Reply #2

John Jones

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Re: When to throw in the towel?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2013, 11:38:38 AM »
Some are so bad you don't have a choice.  I got the cable out but the "tube" was shot.


By the way, Yamaha calls that "tube" a "Bolt, Clamp Bracket" in the parts list, at least they do on the 60 HP.  Around $85 plus the bushing and nuts.

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Niccolo Machiavelli

May 05, 2013, 12:27:01 PM
Reply #3

bondobill

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Re: When to throw in the towel?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2013, 12:27:01 PM »
I had the same problem with my cable steering before I switched to hydraulic.
I always got mine to free up.....
A few wacks on the port side with a 15lb lead downrigger ball always worked on mine  :lol:

Bill
1979 222 FF

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"We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle."

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Bill

May 05, 2013, 01:43:47 PM
Reply #4

fitz73222

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Re: When to throw in the towel?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2013, 01:43:47 PM »
Stuck steering cables can be a royal PITA. You're going to have to heat with MAPP gas. Two things are against you; grease and fiberglass. Stuff wet sopping wet towels between the engine bracket and transom and let it drape down to the floor. Heat the entire tube back and forth until the grease starts to drip and boil. Start rapping on the end of steering shaft. You may have to alternate between heating and wrapping it. Use a 2# brass hammer to minimize mushrooming of the steel shaft. The goal is to expand the aluminum tilt tube away from the steel shaft to make enough clearance to get the shaft to move. Keep the heat away from the stern brackets that concile the plastic tilt tube bushings so you don't cook them. Also get your fuel line and cables out of the way. This works a lot better with two people; one on the torch and one on the hammer. I've never had one not come loose using this method. Just keep the towels wet with a hose and you won't cook the transom. It will come loose! After you get the shaft out clean the tube with a 12 gage shotgun bore brush on end of a drill with any kind of solvent and oil mixed together.
1973 Aquasport 22-2, twin 115 Mercs
2000 Baycraft 175 flats boat, 60 Bigfoot Merc
1968 Boston Whaler 13, 25 Yamaha (project)
1966 Orlando Clipper 13, 9.9 Merc

May 05, 2013, 04:26:21 PM
Reply #5

alandry100

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Re: When to throw in the towel?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2013, 04:26:21 PM »
Thanks for the help guys.
Made some progress - but may have a new roadblock.
I am having trouble making any headway now that the steering rod is flush with the tube. Was moving it fine until it hit the end. Maybe I mushroomed it. I hit it with the dremel but made a few whacks at the end that  may have added a burr.



The tube has just been exposed on the starboard side - it does not look that bad, I am surprised it is this stuck.



Also, has anyone done this on a 170? Will I have enough room to pull this out without pulling the engine. It looks close.
79\' 170
2005 Yamaha 70 two stroke

May 05, 2013, 04:31:30 PM
Reply #6

alandry100

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Re: When to throw in the towel?
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2013, 04:31:30 PM »
One other thing that I think helped is driving around a bit. I took the boat on a dump and hardware run ~ 10 miles. I think that loosened things up.
79\' 170
2005 Yamaha 70 two stroke

May 05, 2013, 05:11:57 PM
Reply #7

dburr

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Re: When to throw in the towel?
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2013, 05:11:57 PM »
Time now for a hard wood down or if that doesn't work, a trip to the local Ace Hardware for a piece of 3/8 cold roll steel to use as a punch..

If you measure the steering cable to where it will bend enough to clear the transom then make sure you have at least the distance left of the width of the swivel bracket you should be ok...

Nothing like a dump run and getting Black flies on the windscreen to make thing want to move... :mrgreen:
Dave

88 222 Osprey
00 Yamaha OX66 150
CAS # 2590

May 05, 2013, 06:28:01 PM
Reply #8

alandry100

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Re: When to throw in the towel?
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2013, 06:28:01 PM »
Black flies are everywhere
Is a piece of cold rolled steel the best thing to use, or would a drift be better.
79\' 170
2005 Yamaha 70 two stroke

May 05, 2013, 06:53:00 PM
Reply #9

dburr

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Re: When to throw in the towel?
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2013, 06:53:00 PM »
Cold roll is cheap, available and soft.  It all depends what type of drift pins you have.. If the steel is really hard you have the chance of starting to peen the end over.  3/8 may also be a bit small, you want to be as close to the size of the steering shaft as you can to prevent end damage.  If you have an old socket that is close to the same size as the shaft and extension that you don't mind beating up, you can put the extension into the socket backwards so the head of the socket acts as a foot for the extension.  Now, I am comtradicting the type of steel in the "punches", but one type is small and has a much height point load then the other..

Patience, heat as Farley suggested and it will all work out..

Good Luck!

 :salut:
Dave

88 222 Osprey
00 Yamaha OX66 150
CAS # 2590

May 06, 2013, 02:58:21 PM
Reply #10

pzart

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Re: When to throw in the towel?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2013, 02:58:21 PM »
Quote from: "alandry100"
Also, has anyone done this on a 170? Will I have enough room to pull this out without pulling the engine. It looks close.

Had the same issue with my 75' 170 with a Evinrude 110, I did not have to loosen or remove motor, but I did destroy my cable and then replaced it after I used a lot or rust remover lube and cleaning brushes like the 12 gauge brush. Then remove, clean and relube as part of your winterizing routine.
My Fat and Skinny Water Rides


My 1982 WellCraft Sportsman 248 350EFI/BravoIII


My 1975 AquaSport 170 110 Evinrude

May 06, 2013, 04:00:43 PM
Reply #11

seabob4

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Re: When to throw in the towel?
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2013, 04:00:43 PM »
Seeing as the end of the cable is toast (mushroomed), why not cut the cable on the starboard side by the tilt tube, grind down the end to make it flush with the bore or less, and drive the remaining rod out from starboard to port?


Corner of 520 and A1A...

May 06, 2013, 04:38:22 PM
Reply #12

wingtime

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Re: When to throw in the towel?
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2013, 04:38:22 PM »
Your better off hitting it with an aluminum rod or a brass rod.  A cold rolled steel rod is way too hard.

I had this happen to me once.  I had to CAREFULLY heat it up with a propane torch... and beat on it with a dead blow hammer with some hardwood.  The torch melted/softened the hardened grease allowing it start to move back and forth.  Lots of PB blaster helped too. If there is a Zerk fitting in the middle of the tube... remove it and blast some PB blaster in there too.  As already mentioned a shotgun cleaning brush works good to clean out the tilt tube.  The cable may not be a total loss...  if you can get it back out a bit you can grind down the mushroomed area with a 3M scotch bright wheel or a file.  You will have to do that to get it to go through anyways.
1998 Explorer w/ Etec 250


1987 170 w/ Evinrude 90

May 07, 2013, 08:05:38 PM
Reply #13

alandry100

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Re: When to throw in the towel?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2013, 08:05:38 PM »
Thanks for all the help guys - I am getting there - it will come out and I am fairly confident the cable will be useable (I think). I haven't had a chance to get back out there with tennis season in full swing. I think I buried a burr or slight mushroom and I don't think I can pound it back, at least I can't think of a way without destroying the cable.
What do you guys think about cutting off a cm or so of the tube with the Dremel, then grinding down the steering bar until I'm sure it is low? I don't think the last inch or so is structural?
After that I would be very careful about pounding. Once it is all the way in the tube I will have to worry less about mushrooming - correct?
79\' 170
2005 Yamaha 70 two stroke

May 09, 2013, 03:49:14 PM
Reply #14

TheKid

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Re: When to throw in the towel?
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2013, 03:49:14 PM »
Cut cable.

Wack the hell out of it.

Install Hydraulic steering.

Never worry about it.

That's what I had to do.

The inside of teh shaft had high spots(rust) Had to grind all that down and fresh lube prior to installing hydraulics.

SORRY. This is a B!tch of a job!!!