write up/detailed instruction on nidabond transom?

[redemn93]

hi guys.  thinking about doing the transom on my 1987 196.  with the motor down, if i step on the on the caviation plate with all my weight (240 lbs) there is very slight flex at the top of the transom and a small hairline crack that opens up a tiny bit on the top of the transom.  almost where is meets the gunnel.  motor is a 1989 blackmax 150 for motor weight questions.  

i like the idea of the nidabond.  dramatically cuts the fiberglass work involved.  pretty cut the top off the transom.  drill/chainsaw all the wood out.  remove all wood, rough up the fiberglass inside as good as possible and pour the stuff in?  do i need to support the inner and outter skin for pouring and hardening?  never used anything like it before.  ive read quite and bit but no one really doing it like this.  at the same time, i will be raising it 5" from its lowest point in the center where the engine mounts.  a write up with pics or video or anything would be a great help.  what do i doo with the wood above the point where i can cut out the transom top?  leave it alone if its ok and pour what i cant?

this isnt a permanent boat.  hope to use it for 2-3 years then get something bigger.  however i do like this boat.  maybe if i can afford it later ill do the floor and stringers, paint it and keep it.

thanks for any help guys.

[Curious]

Here ya go:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9017

[redemn93]

dude...you're my effing hero.    thank you.  how much did you spend total on the project?  nida, catalyst, glass, resin, filler.  all said and done.  from your experience, do you think the extra 3 gallons would have gotten you 5 inches higher from the lowest point where the motor sits?  if not, how much higher.  i have a 25' motor and would like to see it sit atleast 2-3" higher than it is now.  i got the cavitation plate to sit level with the hull but it sprays alot of water on plane.  cant even see it on plane when you look down with someone else at the wheel.

redoing this transom will help alot of issues i have with the boat right now.  floor and stringers, since im sure they are full of water, will be in another year or 2.  i wont be doing anything crazy, just a straight up floor, new tank, flotation foam and stringers.  im at the point you were.  i just want to see the boat safely usable.  

i wonder if getting more of the motor out of the water will help top speed.  im running an old blackmax 150 with a 25" shaft.  i know its too tall but it was the right price and runs like an animal.  top speed with just me, 1/3 tank of fuel and a slight tail wind i hit 46.4 on gps.  44.5 against the wind.  thats with a ttop and 20 pitch prop.  wonder how much closer to 50 i can with the right motor height.  it was much slower with the 17 i originaly had but took off like a rocket.  see if some of the damn porpusing will go away too.

now im excited to do this.    going to wait till winter.  summer is here.  transom is plenty safe for inside fishing, sandbars and calm offshore days for this season.  itll be my first real fiberglass project.  i have alot to learn.  lets see if my fairing skills can even come to half as good as your brother.  wonder if letting it sit nose up and under cover will allow some of the water to dry out of the foam.

[gran398]

hi guys.  thinking about doing the transom on my 1987 196.  with the motor down, if i step on the on the caviation plate with all my weight (240 lbs) there is very slight flex at the top of the transom and a small hairline crack that opens up a tiny bit on the top of the transom.  almost where is meets the gunnel.  motor is a 1989 blackmax 150 for motor weight questions.  

i like the idea of the nidabond.  dramatically cuts the fiberglass work involved.  pretty cut the top off the transom.  drill/chainsaw all the wood out.  remove all wood, rough up the fiberglass inside as good as possible and pour the stuff in?  do i need to support the inner and outter skin for pouring and hardening?  never used anything like it before.  ive read quite and bit but no one really doing it like this.  at the same time, i will be raising it 5" from its lowest point in the center where the engine mounts.  a write up with pics or video or anything would be a great help.  what do i doo with the wood above the point where i can cut out the transom top?  leave it alone if its ok and pour what i cant?

this isnt a permanent boat.  hope to use it for 2-3 years then get something bigger.  however i do like this boat.  maybe if i can afford it later ill do the floor and stringers, paint it and keep it.

thanks for any help guys.

Hi!

Several things to chew on here.

If you're only going to run it a few years...and it really doesn't flex much...and there is only one small crack....don't spend the money. Wrap a stainless plate across the transom top and call it good.

On the other hand...if you want to keep her....and restore her...different game.

There are several threads here regarding poured transoms. Search for "Arjay", "poured transoms", etc.

What is initially perceived as simple can easily turn into a can of worms. The 2K+ you spend on a transom doesn't address the stringers and deck. When its time for that, and it will be, you'll end up replacing the tank too. Then you'll want to re-wire. Then you'll want to re-do the old console, etc., etc.

Also remember that the money you spend will never be recouped. When it's time to sell or trade, it will still price out the same as other boats. Value of hull, engine, and trailer.

Don't mean to play devil's advocate or be a downer. Just go into it with both eyes open. If you'll be trading up in a year or three....and she's in decent shape right now...run what you brung. Save the money for the next one

[Curious]

No worries.  I don't know exactly how much I was into it for but I know it was under a grand.  BUT, my brother did the fiberglass and finish work and he didn't charge me for labor.  I assume a professional job from soup to nuts would be around 3 to 5 grand.  

I have to forwarn you, the removal of the old wood and prep for the pour was really a pain in the a$$.  Very tedious and labor intensive.   I almost cut the whole boat into pieces with the chainsaw and brought it to the dump a couple of times.  But I stuck it out, took a break from it and came back with a fresh perspective and ultimately it worked out.  I have a ton of respect for the guys on here who do a complete deck off restoration.  For me though, I don't enjoy that part of boating.  I just want to get on it and get out on the water.  But I have champagne tastes on a Budweiser budget, so here I am.

One thing I would have done differently if I could have afforded to at the time is raise the transom all the way and add a bracket.

I thnk I had about 2 or 3 gallons left and used about 12 or 13.  Don't forget I have the modified V which is shallower and therefore smaller volume-wise than a deep V.  I can't really say for sure but the extra couple of gallons may have added the height you are asking about.

Regarding the wet foam, I got lucky and did not have wet stringers as far as I could tell.  Members on here recommend drilling a small hole in the base of the stringer near the transom to see if water weeps out.  Just in case, I put my boat nose down with a dehumdifier running in the cabin just in case there was water in the stringers.  In hindsight I doubt it made a difference but I just wanted to get ther stern area as dry as possible prior to the pour.  Also, on some of these boats the stringer ends aren't tied into the transom like you would think, ie foam directly exposed to the transom plywood.  I'm pretty sure the aft ends of my stringers were glassed prior to being tabbed into the transom.

You also need to check out Bondobill's transom rebuild.  He did his by pulling the rear skin off his transom.  I almost did that a couple of times during my project because it was so difficult to access the base of the cavity to get all the old wood out.  There are also a couple of really good transom rebuild threads over on classicmako.com.

[Curious]

You know what?  Gran's right.  Get a good, solid aluminum or stainless transom plate that wraps around the inner/top/outer and goes as far out to the sides as possible and down to the base of the motor mount holes so you can get the whole motor on it.  I think I've also seen them raised so you could add the few inches that you are talking about.  Problem solved with none of the tedious labor involved!

[gran398]

Our friend and member  JD had this fabricated in stainless for his 222 CCP "Ocean Potion"





Here is the build link

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6577&hilit=transom+cap


And yes, it went on the boat, not on the Z-71

You may want to PM Jdupree and see if it's available. He just put in a new transom. You may have to slice and dice a bit....but it will work

[Curious]

That's the one I was thinking of.  I think I've seen them with a little added height too but I can't remember where.

[gran398]

Dan, have seen them too.

Based upon the  pic above...the middle portion (engine plate portion) extends four to five inches above the existing top plate....and is cored.

Great to accommodate a 25 inch shaft....but doesn't address washover with a twenty inch transom if running a big V-6.

Some members have fabbed acrylic risers (wave gates) on their twenty inch transoms to reduce washover. These units are available commercially from Great Lakes jobbers/suppliers... used in "back trolling" for salmon.

[redemn93]

well, i went out yesterday and there is no flex when in the water and throttling up.  the crack did not extend any further.  i ran it pretty hard.  i have 1/4" aluminum plate inside and out but it doesnt wrap around.  i think im going to leave it for now.  wait till after this season and decide what to do with the boat.  she is pretty solid for now and cant be that water logged for the speed it runs.

here is a pic of the outside plate.  dont have one of the inside but its about the total height possible and probably 14-15" long.  and a pic of the float line from yesterday.  please forgive how filthy the first pic is.  this was when i first put the boat together.  was a bare hull when i got it.  just console, ttop and leaning post.  nothing else.  and that wasnt even installed at the time.  

[TheKid]

I have the same issue, same crack...maybe even worse on the top cap of the transom.

Drill some exploratory holes in the transom from bottom to top to check for water. Mine has water up to about 1/3 the total height.

If I jump on the motor while it is raised I get a little flex. Been this way for the three years I have owned it. Still the same. Probably been like this for many years prior too.

Does it need to be fixed? Yes. Does it need to be fixed now? NO!!

Save your money for other things. If in a few years you decide you want to keep it, then replace it and stringers and floor at the same time. It will be easier to do all that stuff at the same time anyway.

[Curious]

Here's what mine used to look like.  Had some flex, but very little.

[redemn93]

due to the expense of the pourable stuff, i think this winter i will park her under a canopy and just rebuild to a 25" transom from the outside with marine plywood and be done with it.  i dont want to cut into the inside of the boat.  for now i just want a dry, solid, proper height transom.  run it a few years and sell it or go ahead with a new floor and stringers if i decide to keep it.

can it be done without wrapping new glass around the side?  just epoxy the original skin back on, add new glass up and over as needed and fill gaps with cabisol and resin?  i can get the materials fairly cheap.  i dont want to paint the whole boat.  just the transom.  will be white.  i know i wont be able to match the blue thats on it now.  i didnt do the current paint and im not sure what was used.  would it look stupid?  inside the boat is white so i dont mind painting a portion of that.  my dad would know how to do all this (and do it the right way) as he's done almost his whole life but i rather  have a good idea of what im getting into before i start on this.  he may hate this idea.

http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/ ... 0&start=60

would i need 2 pieces or bonded/glassed 3/4 ply or is it one piece of 3/4 bonded to a piece of 1/2?  i forget what i read before and cant find that info now.

[gran398]

3/4 plus 3/4