Bad Gas

[126andy]

So I went down to the boat today and it just wouldn't run right. Johnson 50 SPL  It wouldn't idle correctly and when I put it in reverse it would just stall. I tried everything to get it to run right. I noticed in the throats of the carbs little black things like little dots. I pulled off the water separator filter and poured the gas from the filter in a cup. It didn't look like gas should and didn't even have a gas smell really.
I finally pulled off the carbs and took them apart and cleaned them up good and replaced them then I got a 6 gal tank with fresh gas and hooked it up.The motor started to run just fine. Had to pull the boat so I can empty the tank. Going to put new filters on and all fresh gas as soon as I get rid of the old stuff from the tank.
I thought that filling the tank and adding Startron and the end of last season was the way to go so no moisture would build up in the tank but now I'm finding that the best way to go with the ethanol in the gas is to keep the tank as close to empty as possible. Hopefully I'll get the tank empty tomorrow and be in the water again by the end of the week.

[Circle Hooked]

Andy did you ever replace all your fuel lines ? if not they are not compatible with the ethanol so that may be your problem, the black dots you saw in the carbs sound like pieces of fuel line, I used eth in my 25 Johnson once and had the same problem.

[pigbike]

Andy,
 The ethanol fuel doesn't keep well. You are better off putting fresh in when you launch for the year. Stabil makes a additive for ethanol fuel that is suppose to keep it fresh, it is blue in color instead of red. Walmart carries it around here. If you can purchase NON Ethanol fuel you would be better off. I drive way out of the way to get my fuel just to get Non ethanol.

I would do as Circle Hooked said and change out your entire fuel line, bulb and all if you are finding black specs in the fuel, it is probably your fuel line or your growing corn in your tank

[wingtime]

There is no additive the will stop ethanol from going bad. Period.  Lets put it this way ethanol is added to the fuel just before it is sent to the gas stations.  They do not add it at the refinery since it has such a short shelf life.  Ethanol and gasoline don't mix.  Just like vinegar and salad oil in salad dressing...  it is going to separate.  So at the end of this season drain your tank or fill it with nonethanol with a stabilizer.

[gran398]

Exactly...go with the non-eth.

SOMEWHERE on here was a link to non-eth gas stations by state.

I'll try the "search is your friend" method.

Edit:

"Search is your friend" method worked like a champ:

http://pure-gas.org/

In the Great State of Florida:

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=FL

[wingtime]

Scott hit the nail on the head with the Pure-Gas website.  I use it all the time.  I find that Non-ethanol runs about 30 cents more per gallon than premium.  Now if you have ethanol rated fuel lines running it is OK as long as you use it up every time.  I find with boats we plan on going out soon but then weather, plans, honey-doos  etc get in the way and next thing you know it's been over a month since you last went out on the boat!

[126andy]

I'm thinking of just using the 6 gal deck tank and not using the under deck tank at all and just leave it empty. At least then I know what I have and I can get rid of anything that I think may be bad. That 50 Johnson should run all day on 6 gals.

[pigbike]

I'm thinking of just using the 6 gal deck tank and not using the under deck tank at all and just leave it empty. At least then I know what I have and I can get rid of anything that I think may be bad. That 50 Johnson should run all day on 6 gals.

That sounds like the best approach. Can you get Non ethanol where you live?

[126andy]

I can get airplane fuel over at the airport or I can go to the speedshop and get cam2

[RickK]

Look for "Recreational" fuel.

[pigbike]

How about the marinas where you boat at.  I believe most fuel docks have non ethanol. You will have to pay more but the non E gas is more expensive no matter where you get it. Might be worth a few phone calls, and did you check the pure-gas site for your area.

[pzart]

There is no additive the will stop ethanol from going bad. Period.  Lets put it this way ethanol is added to the fuel just before it is sent to the gas stations.  They do not add it at the refinery since it has such a short shelf life.  Ethanol and gasoline don't mix.  Just like vinegar and salad oil in salad dressing...  it is going to separate.  So at the end of this season drain your tank or fill it with nonethanol with a stabilizer.

I am no chemist, and not a moonshiner, but it seems to me with a little ingenuity from all the members in this forum that we should be able to come up with a cheap way to distill our ethanol fuel if we believe it has set to long.....or remix it    We all spend massive amounts of money on electronics, fuel meters, wax, cleaning supplies, beer, fishing supplies, boat covers, batteries, docking fees.........     Because we want to..... lets start a thread and figure out a cheap easy way to store, revive, filter our fuel. Seems to me it couldn't be much more than a used 20 gallon gas tank from CL and some filters and cheap pumps.....or maybe its not cost effective, but how will we know without trying...... there are test kits available http://www.por15.com/E-TEST-KIT/productinfo/ETK/  anyone have any ideas or knowledge on all this..... It is almost like we have made Fuel a TABOO issue anymore, "just buy it and use it", lets not think about it.

[Capt. Bob]

There is no additive the will stop ethanol from going bad. Period.  Lets put it this way ethanol is added to the fuel just before it is sent to the gas stations.  They do not add it at the refinery since it has such a short shelf life.  Ethanol and gasoline don't mix.  Just like vinegar and salad oil in salad dressing...  it is going to separate.  So at the end of this season drain your tank or fill it with nonethanol with a stabilizer.

I am no chemist, and not a moonshiner, but it seems to me with a little ingenuity from all the members in this forum that we should be able to come up with a cheap way to distill our ethanol fuel if we believe it has set to long.....or remix it    

Well,
At the chance at getting pounced upon by a "salesman" practicing chemistry without a license, I'll enter this.

If you get a fresh supply of ethanol (never tried) and mix it with your old gas AFTER you have removed the phase separated ethanol/water grog, you may have something there. I would not think the mixing is the hard part, just pour it in and stir. It's the removing of the crap and of course buying/distilling ethanol that may cause some "bumps".

Disposing of the unwanted stuff? Well you just have to ask yourself "how well do you sleep at night?"

The ethanol added at the fuel distributor only lasts as long as it hasn't been super saturated with water. When the added ethanol reaches that stage it "separates" from the gas. The original fuel is what came from the refinery and the crap on the bottom is the added ethanol + absorbed water.

That stated, I have read that higher octane fuel is a "better quality" refined product than the lower octane. This is logical because, theoretically fuel (in most cases) is 10% ethanol for the same quantity of fuel grades but octane numbers are higher. I also read that the mid grade fuel is a mix of the two (high and low) If we assume this is true, and everybody is honest, the fuel (sans ethanol) has to be of different quality in order for the math to work.

Who knows what's happening at the distributor? He's compensated for selling ethanol but you would think (ha ha) his ethanol ratio to fuel would be checked by authorities (again ha, ha) so.....
Ethanol test kits? Well they may indeed work but that only tells you what you tested at that time. Sounds like a pool test kit to me but.....

To get rich quick, invent a product that prevents ethanol from absorbing water (there's a Nobel Prize waiting to happen) or at the very least retards the process. Could be when they get the "God Particle" thing solved, the laws of chemistry will also change.

It could happen but until then use "Whatever". The shelves are full of it at Wal Mart.

Either you buy non ethanol, add magic potion or burn through it quick.

I choose door three.

[Double Trouble]

I winterize my boat every november and open it in march. My tank is usually about 1/2 full between 80 and 90 gals. of ethonal fuel. I double dose it with StaBil and have no problems I usually take her out for a run without adding gas and before I change plugs and she runs fine. The problem is more likely the hoses being eaten away by the ethanol and not enough stabilizer when you winterize.Get some gas out of the tank in a clear bottle make sure you get it from the bottom of the tank without rocking the boat all around let it settle if it seperates you will need to drain off the rest until it does not seperate anymore and you will be good to go. One more thing do not add any of those tank cleaners or you will have more problems and dont use any treatments with any kind of alcohol in it.

[wingtime]

Ethanol is a tank cleaner!     It will break down any old varnish built up in your fuel system left over from old non ethanol fuel.  The varnish will show up as tiny golden brown flakes in your fuel filter.    Don't get avgas it is LOADED with lead!  Yes they call it 100 Low Lead but don't let the name fool you it has four times the lead in it than the old 80 octane avgas.  It is a very stabil fuel that stores well but I'd guess your gonna pay $6 or more per gallon for it.  Couldn't you find a non ethanol source on Pure gas.org?