Flatback Fireboat Rebuild

[CLM65]

OK guys, looking for more advice/opinions.  In another post, I asked about waterline and deck drains.  At the time I was planning on using deck drains with internal balls, and 1-1/2" thru hull fittings.  The consensus seemed to be that draining it straight out the transom above deck was the preferred option.  After much deliberation, I have finally come to my senses and agree.  So now I need to select the fitting that will provide an exit for the water on my deck.  The below picture shows the fitting I had previously purchased that I am no longer planning to use (on the left).  The middle fitting is a 1-1/2" GEM thru hull.  And the hardware on the right is a GEM hawse pipe.



I am leaning towards the hawse pipe, even though it is not intended for this function.  It is about the same height as the thru-hull, but is considerably wider and will allow more flow.  I also think it looks a little better.  I had also seen some older Makos and Regulators with something similar, but with a flap to prevent backflow.  This one is a little lower profile, which I like better.  Plus I couldn't find any anywhere.  For this fitting or the thru-hull, I will build in a little recess where the deck meets the transom, sorta like the original deck, to help vacate all (or most of) the water.  And for either of these fittings I have a plan to keep wave action from pushing water onto the deck.

So does anyone see a problem with using the hawse pipe?  Any opinions on which would look better?  Note that I am raising the deck about 3", so hopefully they will normally sit above the waterline.

[gran398]

You asked for opinions, so....

See hawse pipes all the time as deck drains on yachts and ships....but the deck is way above the waterline. They're there to dump water off the deck, fast. Rogue wave, crashing seaway, etc.

For a small boat, it is attractive and interesting....but what bothers me is the safety. Boat in the water, heavy rain, twig gets stuck under the bilge float switch, batts drain....bilge fills....these big holes are going to flood her quick, even with a provision/flap etc. on the outside. Or, someone loosens/knocks a flap off with a gaff, etc. during use. Impossible to plug securely from the inside, unless you custom make some stoppers, etc. Even then, its a big hole, X2.

Personally would stick with a couple of the tried and true sleeve-style brass drains that you can stick a plug in. They have worked well for me, and you can adjust them according to need. Backing out of the slip, stern to a hard wind...I plug 'em. Slow trolling with a full livewell and all that weight...I plug 'em. Rest of the time, one or both plugs are out. But you have the ability to plug as necessary, which is also great for a big crew in a sloppy sea. You also have the option of adding ping-pongs.

You can provisionally install a couple of brass drains, rig her, and see how/where she rides/sits. Then if you want, add the hawse pipes later on the fine-tune. Will be a whole lot easier and better structurally to cut out for an addition than to fill and fair to get back to original if unhappy.

JMHO

[RickK]

I have a portion of my brain working on this for my boat too so I'm watching the replies.  Did you look at the solution Dirt did on his rebuild?

[CLM65]

Some valid points there, Scotty.  And Rick, I did looks at dirtwheels' scuppers.  In fact, his were a big reason I decided to change to above-deck scuppers.  Granted he does not have an engine on his in his floating pictures, but his scuppers are a few inches above the waterline and he said they stayed high and dry when he added 350# in the back.  Plus my deck will be about 1-1/2" higher than his.

[Capt. Bob]

Dirt's appear to be the "recessed" type flapper. Is that correct?

[gran398]

Dirt's appear to be the "recessed" type flapper. Is that correct?

Bonjour!

Can you throw up a pic of dirts, or direct to which page? tx

[Capt. Bob]

viewtopic.php?p=120505#p120505

[gran398]

Appreciate it

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy16 ... 8a2f0e.jpg

Craig, one thing I forgot is that you have a closed cockpit, potentially without quick access between the back wall and the transom. So that may nix a simple scupper drain tube setup as on mine.

Here's some good news. Eugene called this morning, he has been following this thread. His first message was "Tell Craig hawse pipes are for ropes"  

His second message "Tell Craig I have the perfect solution. It is a through transom inch and a half specialty scupper with built in ping pongs" .  He made it a point to say it is the angle you need.

Anyhow, you can give him a call, seven two seven four five two oh oh three one

[CLM65]

Ha!  Tell Eugene that ping pong balls are for beer pong!  Just kidding, I have no problem with ping pong scuppers.  But I don't think the hawse pipe will look bad either.  I will call Eugene and see what he has.

And yes, the closed transom would certainly interfere with plugging the holes like you do.

CB, the PB link Scotty posted of dirtwheels' scupper gives you an idea of what he did.  I found some other pics while scrolling through his PB gallery that show that there are no flaps in his scuppers (unless he added them later).

[dirtwheelsfl]

Yep, no flaps in mine yet.       Gonna make some out of acrylic eventually that will sit inside the hole...

[Capt. Bob]

CB, the PB link Scotty posted of dirtwheels' scupper gives you an idea of what he did.  I found some other pics while scrolling through his PB gallery that show that there are no flaps in his scuppers (unless he added them later).

That's where I found this.


It's what you youngsters have to look forward to in your graying years.
Tired eyes.  :(
It just looks like "something" is in those scuppers but it's really an illusion.

Thought it might be one of these.


Anybody got a dog and cane for sale? 8)

[gran398]

I'm in the same boat. Damn it sucks growing up

Craig, any info from Eugene?

[CLM65]

I'm in the same boat. Damn it sucks growing up

Craig, any info from Eugene?

I spoke to Eugene a bit on Friday.  If I understand correctly, he has something similar to the drain on the left in my picture above, only not as deep.  I was previously gung ho on a deck drain plumbed to a thru hull below deck, but the winds have changed and I am now strongly leaning to an above-deck scupper, largely due to the feedback I received on this thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10859.  

Obviously Eugene is not a fan of the hawse pipe approach.  I am not 100% sold on it either, but I believe I can make it work.  I also think I can make the SS thru hull work as well.  I'm not sure what I am going to do at this point.  As much as I value Eugene's input and opinion, part on the attraction of doing a rebuild is (for me anyway) the ability to be creative and do things a little differently than what has been done before.  Doesn't mean it will be any better and it may take more effort than the normal way, but that's ok.  When it is done, it will hopefully have some "uniqueness" to it.

One thing I did learn from Eugene is that he has top-quality fittings (cleats, bow and stern eyes, hinges, etc.) that he supplies to upper tier boat builders.  I plan to hook up with him in the near future to check out what he has.  Of course I have bought most of that stuff already, so I may need to open "MCL West" to get rid of what I don't want....

[gran398]

Thanks for the link, good thread. Like CB was saying, not only do your eyes go with age, but darn if your memory goes as well. Had forgotten all about that thread...CRS setting in.

Know you're going to get a good job no matter the direction you choose.

 Eugene has top quality hardware. He supplied most of our stuff, and its holding up well. That's saying something, because in our situation, the boat lays side-to on a lift all summer in a moderate to strong salty southwest wind. Soap it up...two days later its caked again.

[seabob4]

Craig, like we were talking last night about upper station rigging, thought I would give you my opinion on what you "need" upstairs.  Of course, the helm pump, the standard Teleflex 5271 pump will do you just fine.  You have to run a third line that connects the 2 helms (called a compensating line) and swap out the vented fill cap at the lower helm with a non-vented one.  Since your hoses will bve completely out of the sun (UV), you can use the nylon extruded hose, a LOT cheaper than the Kevlar stuff and a lot smaller in dia as well, so eases the rigging aspect.  

As far as the binnacle, either the Teleflex MT-3 (single lever/dual action) or the old standby Morse "S" control (single lever/single action), pretty much your preference there.  Use Teleflex Xtreme universal cables like I said last night.

Gauges, I'd install a tach and water pressure, nothing more.  If you have tabs, you'll want a tab switch, and for the Porta-bracket and TNT controls, I'd use the Teleflex turn-signal stalk type mounted to the helm pump.  For the keyswitch and kill switch (as well as the tach), you can splice into your engine harness downstairs.  Cheap way of doing it, it does leave both stations "live", but I think that's a moot point with a responsible operator aboard...