RickK's 170 rebuild

[CLM65]

So Bob, you made a comment that Rick's tank will outlast his boat.  Aside from being able to build a tank to fit an existing space, what is the benefit of aluminum that it commands a much higher price?  

Sorry for the derail Rick!

[seabob4]

Frankly Craig, I don't know.  I mean, you look at your tank, the tanks in all the 225 Explorers and Ospreys, and they are all doing fine.  The 225s have a 102 gal. tank, so Moeller and Incas make them pretty big.

The only thing I can really think of, and I may be wrong (   ), is that as you get into bigger tanks for bigger boats, you will start to have multiple users, i.e. twin/triple engines, generator, that sort of thing where you need multiple pickups, and, in the case of diesel applications, returns as well.  So obviously tooling costs go up.  I've never seen a diesel boat with Roto-molded tanks so there may be an issue with diesel reacting with the poly, I don't know.

And yes, usually with larger boats and multiple users you'll find 2 tanks, although PLs 35 Express used a single 450 gal. tank to feed triple O/Bs plus a genset, so multiple tanks aren't the rule...

[RickK]

The biggest obstacle in regards to using poly tanks is that one is limited in size and shape as to what's out there.  The simple way around this is to determine what is the closest that will fit the tank compartment, then build the compartment around the physical shape of the tank.

Exactly what I'm doing.
I'm not sure what kind of tank my 230 is - never popped the covers to see.

[seabob4]

The biggest obstacle in regards to using poly tanks is that one is limited in size and shape as to what's out there.  The simple way around this is to determine what is the closest that will fit the tank compartment, then build the compartment around the physical shape of the tank.

Exactly what I'm doing.
I'm not sure what kind of tank my 230 is - never popped the covers to see.

You should, Rick...really, in all honesty.  You know I re-wire a BUNCH of old boats, you'd be surprised at what I see when I remove the pies or hatches...

Besides, ABYC HIGHLY recommends a yearly inspection of the entire fuel system, connecting points wise.  Fill and vent hoses both at the deck fill and vent fitting, and on the tank, feed line on the tank and at the separator, and the sending unit.

If you remember this pic from my friend Marc's Mako 224 that I re-wired....



I about poo-pooed my pants when I saw that, and this pic is with a lot of crap cleaned up so I could re-wire the sender...

[RickK]

I may have taken a peek but that was long ago (6yrs?) -  definitely NOT within the recommended standards  
Add that to my list.  I need to start her up tomorrow so maybe that is the time to do it.  I'll report back.

[Aswaff400]

Frankly Craig, I don't know.  I mean, you look at your tank, the tanks in all the 225 Explorers and Ospreys, and they are all doing fine.  The 225s have a 102 gal. tank, so Moeller and Incas make them pretty big.

The only thing I can really think of, and I may be wrong (   ), is that as you get into bigger tanks for bigger boats, you will start to have multiple users, i.e. twin/triple engines, generator, that sort of thing where you need multiple pickups, and, in the case of diesel applications, returns as well.  So obviously tooling costs go up.  I've never seen a diesel boat with Roto-molded tanks so there may be an issue with diesel reacting with the poly, I don't know.

And yes, usually with larger boats and multiple users you'll find 2 tanks, although PLs 35 Express used a single 450 gal. tank to feed triple O/Bs plus a genset, so multiple tanks aren't the rule...

Bob, the biggest problem with using poly tanks with diesel is there is a larger andquicker  temperature swing compared to aluminum, that swing causes algae to form quicker.  

moller has a72 gallon tank that fits between my stringers and will fit  after the deck is raised so thats what ill probably get.

[seabob4]

Well thank you Aaron!  How's Texas?  And Merry Christmas to the Swafford bunch!!!

[RickK]

Yesterday I had some time on my hands so I made the forms for the stringers.  You can see some nice round fillets in the corners.  I will cover the forms in 7mil visquene and use that as the release.  Will leave the outer side of the stringer less than perfect but it'll still be structrally sound. There are two types as you can see - the one on the right has two sides at an angle and the one on the left has a 90 degree side and an angle side.  This stringer will be used up against the fuel tank - flat side to tank.


I set the transom core today after dry clamping with a few different tactics to get the inward bow out.  Ended up with a pair of 2x4 PT on edge with 6" spacers between screwed together and it pulled most of the bow out so I went with that.  
I made up some resin putty and filleted the 3 corners of the transom area and then used a 1/4" notch trowel (thanks for the tip Lilrichard) and trowelled putty across the inside transom.  I also soaked the inside wood core and edges and layed a 1.5oz mat soaked and then we installed the core and clamped the heck out of it. Saw good ooze out of the places I checked so I will leave it clamped for a day or so - hoping that the little bit of remaining bow will remain and not get worse.
In this pic you can see that I have about 3/8" at the lower notchout of the transom after the clamping.  It is the same spacing about all the way across the transom with the exception on the very corners of the transom. So I think we're good.




You can see the gap difference at the corner.  BTW, it looks like there is a gap between the core and the skin but if you look close you'll see thick resin oozing up in there. I think it'll be a solid connection.


After the transom we started on making stringers.  
We first made one of the double angled ones - started off with a complete layer of 1708, then 8" 1708 scrap (from the cutoff) in the top, then a 12" 1708 on each side joined into the corners and finally 2 layers of 8oz mat in the top.


Then we made one of the fuel tank stringers

[CLM65]

Awesome, Rick!  I've often wondered how you guys went about building new foam stringers from scratch.  Now I know...looking good!

[gman 82 aquasport]

Awesome job on both the transom and the new stringers glad to see you use a poly tank...when I rebuilt mine I used a 55 gal poly tank and so far am very pleased :)

[RickK]

Merry Christmas everyone - had a few minutes free before the festivites start here so I went out to see how the stringers ended up.

Awesome, Rick!  I've often wondered how you guys went about building new foam stringers from scratch.  Now I know...looking good!

Not sure how everyone else does it but this worked for me.  There are a lot of resources out there to learn from like Classic Mako and Bateau2.com to name a couple.
I will have to lay at least 2 more layers of 1708 to build up the sidewall thickness. Will do that in the boat.

I popped the stringers out of the forms - VERY easy when you use visquene.  Unfasten the visquene, loosen up the stringer in the form (even the 90 degree stringer was easy to do this - hint - BIG round fillets in corners) and then lift the whole stringer out.


Peel the visquene off the stringer


This is the stringer with the 90 degree and angled side - hard to see the angles.  Came out nice though.


Here is the double angled stringer - the thin stuff on the end that looks like visquene is actually resin.

[dburr]

Rick that looks GREAT!  When you put the stringer in the boat will you trim the sides to the shape of the hull or do you have another plan?  What are you going to do to keep the heights even?  Really nice progress, I hope you see it,( the whole forest/tree thing)..

[RickK]

Thanks all.
Hi Dave,
The technical stuff starts soon - like connecting the stringers, keeping them all even.  I did measure down from the cap to each stringer top before I took the old out so that is a starting point.  I would like to raise the floor level an inch anyway to help figure out the self-bailing.
I think I will build the tank box first and keep that all the same flatness by building it upside down outside the boat.  Then figure out the fore and aft from there. At this point in time the stringers walls are maybe 1/16" thick so mitering them should be easy.
I hope to get all the pieces of the puzzle done and then start assembling them.
I'm definitely learning all the way through, since I've never done this extent of rebuild before.

[dburr]

At 1/16 thick the fitting should go fast.  I wondered about the plan for fitting because it appears as though the height in the stern is considerably less then in the bow and you laid up those nice even stringers. Will you foam once glassed in?


Getting the heights from pre-marked spots is the way to go.   I have a habit of forgetting little details like marking stuff before I take it apart , with that nice waterline still intact it would be no trouble  transferring the heights to the inside of the hull .. I did it once with a BIG home built pair of calipers and as long as I kept the level on it both fore/aft and athwartships it went ok..Before I figured that out things were a tad off !

A buddy recommended a laser pointer taped  on a 6 inch level as a good backwoods way of shooting heights around when the string gets in the way.. Necessity is the mother of invention.. Or is it just a mother?

[RickK]

At 1/16 thick the fitting should go fast.  I wondered about the plan for fitting because it appears as though the height in the stern is considerably less then in the bow and you laid up those nice even stringers. Will you foam once glassed in?

Just the opposite, but you're right. cutting the stringers should be easy.

Getting the heights from pre-marked spots is the way to go.   I have a habit of forgetting little details like marking stuff before I take it apart ,

Been there - called learning, maybe the hard way though.

with that nice waterline still intact it would be no trouble  transferring the heights to the inside of the hull .. I did it once with a BIG home built pair of calipers and as long as I kept the level on it both fore/aft and athwartships it went ok..Before I figured that out things were a tad off !

The waterline is not quite how she sits in the water though - I'll have to stick with the measurements I already have.

A buddy recommended a laser pointer taped  on a 6 inch level as a good backwoods way of shooting heights around when the string gets in the way.. Necessity is the mother of invention.. Or is it just a mother?

Good idea - always need another tool in the toolbox.  In this instance I think a piece of wood (or multiples) might be the way to go.  A string would work too.

Oh, almost forgot - yes I'll be foaming them.