22 FF/Yam 200 Performance Numbers

[Curious]

Not sure if this should go in the engine forum or here but I thought I would share this with you guys:

Boat:    1978 22' FF modified V hull.
Motor:  1996 Yamaha 200hp Saltwater Series (carbed).
Prop:    ???

2800 RPMs=  20-21 MPH
3200 RPMs=  25.5-26 MPH
3500 RPMs=  27.7 MPH
4200 RPMs=  34 MPH
5200 RPMs=  WOT. Got to 40 then started to slow down and run rough, still working out the bugs.

Dan

[Capt. Bob]

Dan,
Great info but....

Get us the prop size and I'll move this to the "Prop" thread in our Resource forum. This is just the skinny members often look for.

Thanks.

[Curious]

It's an aluminum prop and I've searched all over the damn thing and can't find any numbers.  It's pretty dinged up and pitted so I can't even see numbers where they would be ordinarily.  It doesn't even say what brand it is.

[bondobill]

Dan

I got the same boat and engine...except mine has the deep v... I turn 5500 wide open throttle and 43 mph on the gps

At 4200 rpms she cruises about 31mph, not as fast as yours at cruise but I push more water with the deeper v
With your modified v and engine turning optimum 5500-5600 rpms you should be running closer to 45-48 mph.
I have had 2 V6 Yamahas on this boat, first one a 89 225 exell, now a 97 200 carbed, and they both ran close to the same numbers with the 13 3/4 x 17" stainless prop.
Sounds to me like you have more than just a prop problem.

Good luck
Bill

[Curious]

Thanks Bill, maybe I'll take you up the offer of that prop you've got kicking around.  I've got to diagnose whatever other issue I have with it at high RPM's but otherwise it runs great and I'm pretty psyched about the 2800-3200 range numbers I'm getting.  My hope was to be able to "sip" fuel at around 22-25 so I think I got that.  Rough idea on the fuel consumption-I ran 5 miles at 3200 (around 25-26 MPH) then topped off that tank again and it took 1.6 gallons.  So I figure 3.2 gallons for 10 miles, around 5 gallons for 15 miles, etc.  This sounds pretty low to me but if it's accurate this motor is no where near the gas hog I thought it would be.  AND, I can't believe how little oil it uses.

[GoneFission]

 AND, I can't believe how little oil it uses.

That may not be such a good thing...  If it's not using about 50:1 gas to oil, you could have a problem!

[bondobill]

Dan
Just let me know if you want that prop. Might not work for ya. But you could use it for a spare if nothing else.
It's not doing me any good sitting under the work bench

With my 200 it seems its sweet spot for running is between 4000-4400 rpms. Both my 225 and this 200 between 3400-3700 just don't sound good, lot louder. Asked mechanic about it and he said that was normal, he also told me if possible try to avoid running the motor for very long in that rpm range.  He told me to listen for the sweet spot and run her there.
Had a fuel flow meter on my old exell 225, at 4200 rpm she used around 12 gls a hour.
Fuel meter doesn't work anymore so don't know what this 200 burns, but it's not near as thirsty as my old 225.

Bill

 
.

[Capt. Bob]

With my 200 it seems its sweet spot for running is between 4000-4400 rpms. Both my 225 and this 200 between 3400-3700 just don't sound good, lot louder. A
Had a fuel flow meter on my old exell 225, at 4200 rpm she used around 12 gls a hour.

That's a mirror image of both my old Evinrude 200 (96) and my current Yamaha 200 (91).
The Evinrude was (still is) on my 222 CCP and 4200 was the choice for fuel savings though I loved running at 4500 (in the low thirties).
The Yamaha is on a shorter but heavier hull (210 WAC) but 4200 is the choice. The Yamaha is a louder motor in my opinion and mellows out at that range. Fuel burn is steady at 11.5 gph and mph average is 28 based on sea condition.

Two different (kinda) motors on two different hulls (yes they are) but with similar results.
I also second Bill's statement as to not running at that lower rpm unless sea conditions forced you to. The fuel burn rate goes down but the motor takes a beating trying to move the hull.

Good luck.

[Curious]

Got it guys, thanks for all the info.  GoneFission, I was wondering about that about my minimal oil consumption.  I'm wondering if it is starving for oil will that cause it to drop RPM's to save the motor?  Plan to get the mechanic to go on a sea trial with me and try to diagnose a few of these issues.  I really can't run it at 4200 in any kind of sea because it gets too squirrelly and uncomfortable.

[bondobill]

Dan
Save mode is more like 2000 rpm, plus a alarm
Then again the only time the alarm went off and computer put it in safe mode on my 225 was when I picked up some kelp on the water intake.
Both times the 225 blew, no alarm went off.
You will know when they are done.. Just have a sound when it happens.. you know your screwed
Been there more than once :(
Sounds like you might have a carb problem
50 to 1 oil consumption I was told is at wide open throttle
At the rpms you have been testing her, amount used might not be out if line

Bill

[RickK]

I think my safe mode on my 250 Yammy is less than 2500 rpm plus alarm and mine does this when the oil rez in the engine is low (which means the main oil rez needs oil)

[fitz73222]

 AND, I can't believe how little oil it uses.

That may not be such a good thing...  If it's not using about 50:1 gas to oil, you could have a problem!

Most conventional oil injected outboards don't run at 50:1 until you get towards 5000 rpm's; mine run @ 80:1 @ idle and increase oil ratio via linkage from the carbs that turn a baffle at the oil pump outlet. It is interesting how little oil they actually need. Years ago, we had a houseboat rental marina on the St. Johns river; rented 35' houseboats with twin 50 mercs that ran on 75:1 pre-mix at the pump. You can just imagine the life these engines had and he did not see powerhead failures; he had a dozen of these boats. My concern has always been that enough oil to run the engine is not enough for long term storage. Years ago engines were way over oiled that caused a host of problems but they could sit for extended periods because they were so pickled with oil. My point is try to run the engine as often as you can even on the muffs for 10 minutes and keep it lubricated or fog the engine for extended downtime (like wintertime). Your engine was designed to run at various oil ratios and tested for 1000's of hours and the OEM's try to break them and do failure analysis and tweak the design.

[GoneFission]

It's true the OEM motors all pretty much have variable oil injection - I know Mercury goes from almost 100:1 at idle to about 50:1 WOT.  

BUT - you can adjust it with a setting in the throttle linkage.  Sometimes a person will take the carbs off, or disassemble the linkage, and not properly install the linkage from the throttle to the oil injection system.  Then the engine is running with almost no oil and eventually siezes.  Of course, Mr. Shadetree blames it on the oil injection!  This is how oil injection has gotten a bad rep in some circles - somebody screws it up and then blames the system for the consequences.  There were some problems with the early OMC VRO systems, but the Mercury systems and most others have been pretty bulletproof since 1984.  But if you play with the throttle linkage, you've got to be sure you set the oil injection link right!  

I have never personally known an oil injection failure that was not caused by a human-related problem such as (I've seen all these!):
-Loose fittings :x
-Diconnected or incorrectly adjusted oil injection linkage    
-Disabling the warning horn and the cap on the oil tank loose  :evil:
-Broken/cracked hose (that was leaking a LOT of oil out of the cowl and nobody noticed?)  
-Broken oil pump drive gear caused by over-tightening the cover or mis-installing the pump  
-Broken cap on top of engine oil tank caused by over-tightening (again!)  

So yes, oil injection uses less oil than a standard 50:1, but if you are running a cruise or top speed and not using at least 75:1, you may want to check the linkage and settings on the oil injection system!

[fitz73222]

It's true the OEM motors all pretty much have variable oil injection - I know Mercury goes from almost 100:1 at idle to about 50:1 WOT.  

BUT - you can adjust it with a setting in the throttle linkage.  Sometimes a person will take the carbs off, or disassemble the linkage, and not properly install the linkage from the throttle to the oil injection system.  Then the engine is running with almost no oil and eventually siezes.  Of course, Mr. Shadetree blames it on the oil injection!  This is how oil injection has gotten a bad rep in some circles - somebody screws it up and then blames the system for the consequences.  There were some problems with the early OMC VRO systems, but the Mercury systems and most others have been pretty bulletproof since 1984.  But if you play with the throttle linkage, you've got to be sure you set the oil injection link right!  

I have never personally known an oil injection failure that was not caused by a human-related problem such as (I've seen all these!):
-Loose fittings :x
-Diconnected or incorrectly adjusted oil injection linkage    
-Disabling the warning horn and the cap on the oil tank loose  :evil:
-Broken/cracked hose (that was leaking a LOT of oil out of the cowl and nobody noticed?)  
-Broken oil pump drive gear caused by over-tightening the cover or mis-installing the pump  
-Broken cap on top of engine oil tank caused by over-tightening (again!)  

So yes, oil injection uses less oil than a standard 50:1, but if you are running a cruise or top speed and not using at least 75:1, you may want to check the linkage and settings on the oil injection system!

Yep,
On Mercs it is adjustable... And I have always been amazed that my 115's and my 60 Bigfoot on the flatsboat use a scant amount of oil. The 115`s just broke 300 hours and the Bigfoot is approaching 700 hours and run like the day they came out of the box with a whole bunch of 3200-3600 rpm cruise time. I've never felt inclined to make them run on more oil. My 50:1 premix with my 9.9 Merc on the '66 Orlando Clipper typically smokes at idle and drips unburned fuel down the skeg after she is put up with (I can assure you!) precision carburetor and idle timing synchronization. I think there is more harm than good of over oiling / over fueling today's 2 stroke engines. Even in the 70's we had lots of powerhead failures (at the OMC dealership) on 5-10 year old engines from stuck/ broken rings caused by oil and carbon sludge wrapping around the piston domes. Of course the human factor of "more is better" when it came to pre-mix oiling or filling up the tank and then adding the oil I'm sure played a role to the early demise.

[Curious]

Got my motor issues diagnosed and was able to hit WOT at 5300 and 40-41 mph.  I finally got a little more detail on the prop.  I found the number 17 on it and I'm told it is probably a 17x14.5.  The motor is probably down too far (Anti vent plate just underwater on a plane) so that is probably affecting performance and the prop is pretty dinged up too.  Otherwise I think the rest of the numbers are the same, I'll double check and report back, but feel free to move this into the prop forum if you feel like it would be of any help.  Or I can retest and start a new post there with the new numbers.