Seacast, Arjay or Nida core?

[seabob4]

nidacore service has gone to crap since 3M took them over. everything has to go through 3M, you cant go there and buy stuff like you used to, you have to go through all this quote crap with 3M. ive tried several times to get quotes and havent heard anything back. they dont like hassleing with the little guys i guess. awhile back i needed a few scraps of foam for something, and they said come on out and gave me 2 full 2x4ft. sheets, free. very nice people there still, but just under the 3M corporate rule. sad really...

Dirt, you are absolutely correct about 3M.  When I was at Proline, I brought in a rep from Yacht Brite with a new product (I think it was Buff Magic) that not only was superior in performance to Finesse-it or Imperial, but costs less initially, and required less material to produce the same, or better results.  Brought it to my bosses attention, he seemed indifferent, said take it to our CFO (an old friend of mine from my WC/AS days), he said he'd think about it...never heard another effin word!  The guy from Yacht Brite (Jason Brennan, an excellent dude) bugged me for months...what could I tell him?

The hell with 3M!  The same with Norton abrasives.  Better paper, less cost.  Never got anywhere with them either...

[slippery73]

nidacore service has gone to crap since 3M took them over. everything has to go through 3M, you cant go there and buy stuff like you used to, you have to go through all this quote crap with 3M. ive tried several times to get quotes and havent heard anything back. they dont like hassleing with the little guys i guess. awhile back i needed a few scraps of foam for something, and they said come on out and gave me 2 full 2x4ft. sheets, free. very nice people there still, but just under the 3M corporate rule. sad really...

Dirt, you are absolutely correct about 3M.  When I was at Proline, I brought in a rep from Yacht Brite with a new product (I think it was Buff Magic) that not only was superior in performance to Finesse-it or Imperial, but costs less initially, and required less material to produce the same, or better results.  Brought it to my bosses attention, he seemed indifferent, said take it to our CFO (an old friend of mine from my WC/AS days), he said he'd think about it...never heard another effin word!  The guy from Yacht Brite (Jason Brennan, an excellent dude) bugged me for months...what could I tell him?

The hell with 3M!  The same with Norton abrasives.  Better paper, less cost.  Never got anywhere with them either...

I had my first dealings with Nida-core about 4 yrs ago.  Service sucked then and its sucked since, doubt it has anything to do with 3m.  Don't even bother trying to email, they are slow to respond and their sales reps are about the same.  The best bet is to call the main office if you want to get pricing or place an order.


On the subject of materials, I like aquabuff for compound. Sandpaper..... hands down MIRKA.  I've been using the autonet discs in the shop exclusively for about a year now.  They are without a doubt the best sand paper I have ever used. The discs are made of mesh not paper, it allows dust extraction at the DA and results in double or triple the life of comparable paper based discs.  I wish I would have had these when I did my boat, cuts labor times dramatically as well.  Hardly ever does material ball up on these discs, they run clean for much longer than a standard disc.

I had been using carborundum discs, which I liked. Still have some supply left of those I use on occasion, but no comparison really and my supplier has them about the same cost as a decent quality carbo disc.

[seabob4]

In my dealings with hardware reps of all types at the OEM level, many would shower the OEM engineering managers with gifts, golf clubs, weekend trips, whatever (yes, they're called bribes) to get the companies business, more or less based on the sheer volume that a contract would bring in.  They could have given a chit about the little guy, the individual.

Nowadays, with boat builders floundering (those that are still in business), or even the ones that have closed up shop, one would think that these hardware/materials companies would be more than happy to deal on the small scale.  Guess that's not the case.  To me, a sale is a sale...money IN the door!!

[Curious]

Thanks for all the info guys.  I e-mailed Nica Core and received a response that I should contact LBI Corp. which is in my area.  I'll let you know how it goes.

Bill-  Do you remember how much Seacast you used for your transom?

Gran-  Regarding the weight loss, The tank was encased in water and wet foam.  Now the coffin is nice and clean and dry.  I've been running a dehumidifier in the cabin for the last few days and I'm only getting a little water out.  Not sure what exactly that means.  Also, I felt around by the transom on top of the stringers where they come down on a 45 degree angle and found a hole in the top of each one (seemed factory because they were both in the same place).  I was able to push my finger as far down as I could into each stringer and did not find any wet foam.  I have no illusions about whether or not the stringer foam is wet, but I was encouraged by this finding.

[bondobill]

Bill-  Do you remember how much Seacast you used for your transom?

I went by their calculator, it came up with just shy of 13 gls.   I did add some height to the transom about 5" on both sides. I ordered 3 five gallon pails hoping it would be enough. I had just about a half of pail left  that I didn't mix and probably about a gallon that was left over that was mixed. I am guessing roughly about 11-12 gls did the job for me. My hull is the deep vee, looks like yours is the modified vee, maybe won't take as much for your hull, although I did add a couple layers of glass to the inside skin which took up a little more room. Will depend how high up in the wings you are going. You should be able to get by with 2 five gl pails, but don't take my word, what do you do if it 's not enough, trouble is when I bought it they only sold it in 5 gls.

I am no chemist, but have  I thrown a lot of autobody filler in my lifetime. Seacast looks like thinned out bondo, smells like bondo, even uses the same hardener as bondo,
 If you run out you could get your autobody guy to thin out some bondo with lacquer thinner, add some chopped fiberglass to it,
 walla .....Just joking..  :)
Bill

[jsakat1]

I went with seacast. For someone that has never rebuilt something like a boat, the seacast was easy to mix and pour. The hardest thing was probably chain sawing the rotted wood from the transom. I had a good friend of mine do most of the chain sawing. You need at least a 20 inch saw to reach 95 percent of the wood. I ordered three pails but only used two on my boat. I ended up returning the extra five gallon bucket and got refunded on it. Make sure you tap the transom with a hammer. I feel comfortable with it.

[Curious]

Thanks guys.  I e-mailed LBI Corp and have not gotten a response.  I'll try to call them since they are in the northeast, otherwise it looks like Seacast is in my future.  I'm probably going to get killed with shipping costs regardless-  I live on an island and the stuff is probably hazardous.

jsakat1, yeah the removal of the plywood was quite an experience to say the least.  I ended up using a 16" long 1" auger drill bit to drill holes as close as possible and then chainsaw, drill, repeat.  Got the last bits out with a 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 inch Forstner bit attached to two extensions to get down deep.  Only problem was the shank on the Forstner bit was 3/8 and the female side of the extensions are 1/4.  I had to carefully grind the shank down from 3/8 to 1/4 then drill two divets in the shank for the set screws on the extension to sink into, otherwise it would grab and spin.  Then the cutting edge of the bit would grab a chunk of wet wood and lose cutting power so I had to pull it out, clear it, vacuum the sawdust, unclog the vacuum, repeat.  Suffice to say it was not a two beer project.  Anyways, its all out and now I just need to sand the inside of the skins to get a little bit of leftover wood out, rinse with acetone and prep for the pour.  The weather went downhill so I'm probably going to wait until Spring to do the pour, and I was able to squeeze the boat into the garage so it is drying out nicely.

[Curious]

Spoke to LBI Fiberglass today.  They are located in Groton, CT and it looks like they have a pretty extensive inventory.  They stock Nida Core Pourable Transom Compound at $155.00 per 5 gallon pail.  Shipping is ridiculous so I am considering taking a road trip and picking it up along with my new gas tank when I decide to pull the trigger on that, (shipping also ridiculous).  

I also heard a rumor today that the Nida Core pourable transom compound is the same product as Arjay, under a different market name????  Anyways, anyone in the northeast looking for fiberglass/divinicell/coring material, etc. should check them out:  http://www.lbifiberglass.com.  The site is being upgraded so it's a little messed up right now.

A few guys over on classicmako.com have used the NidaCore product and have had great success with it.  Sounds like I'm headed in that direction due to location, cost and good reviews.

In the meantime, I have gotten the remaining attached plywood layers out of the transom.  I ended up using a rotary rasp on the tougher spots and a 1" sanding wheel with 50 grit to rough up the entire surface, each attached to my drill extensions to get deeper into the cavity.  Very tedious but finally ready to pour.  The plywood, although definately wet, was still pretty well bonded in many spots.  It was clean and new looking (but wet) in most areas, and some areas were soft, really wet, dark and smelly, usually near any scupper, bolt hole or drain.  Now it is clean, roughed up and dry.  Getting close!

[gran398]

Hey, good job!

Thanks for reporting what you have found. Verifies the ideas we've always had....the deterioration begins from a loose/unbonded transom drain tube, bolt holes, etc...soggy wet at the bottom, drier as you go up. When the boat is in the water...the water migrates in, and wicks up through the plywood until it equals the outside water level.

You'll be tickled pink with the job when you're finished. Heck, sometime for fun, go back and check out Bondobill's rebuild.

[Curious]

Heck, sometime for fun, go back and check out Bondobill's rebuild.

I've been back to his rebuild several times to review what he did and look over his pics.  I'll probably go back again, and again.....Priceless!