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Author Topic: Question for the king of wiring, Dear Mr. Seabob  (Read 1076 times)

November 12, 2011, 06:01:39 AM
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fitz73222

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Question for the king of wiring, Dear Mr. Seabob
« on: November 12, 2011, 06:01:39 AM »
Seabob,

Please dispell a myth. During our Friday night meeting with my 25-35 year friends who all have boats, including the previous owner of my 22-2. I asked the question; can you use dielectric silicone grease directly on the wire connection ends before joining two wires in a butt splice, then heat shrinking the connection. Or make the connection and then coat the butt splice with dielectric silicone and then heat shrink? The conversation quickly turned into our typical vortex down to what the Latin word for what "die" means in this application. ( Three pitchers of beer helps to get our engines fired up) Is the dielectric silicone conductive or not? Does it create resistance or not? I'm getting ready to replace my keyswitches and hot horns and I want to do this once. Please elaborate if you will.

Thanks,
Fitz
1973 Aquasport 22-2, twin 115 Mercs
2000 Baycraft 175 flats boat, 60 Bigfoot Merc
1968 Boston Whaler 13, 25 Yamaha (project)
1966 Orlando Clipper 13, 9.9 Merc

November 12, 2011, 11:56:20 AM
Reply #1

John Jones

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Re: Question for the king of wiring, Dear Mr. Seabob
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2011, 11:56:20 AM »
I have been doing electronic work for 40+ years.  I have ALWAYS used dielectric grease on my exposed electrical or electronic connections.  No it is not conductive.  A good electrical connection depends on the mechanical connection.  If you have a solid mechanical connection it will not cause any issues.  The grease will be forced out of the way of the metal parts where they touch.  You don't want conductive grease on something like a gps/depthfiinder plug or you would be shorting the pins together.  When I build battery cables I shoot the lug full of the grease, stick the cable in the lug, then crimp the lug.  Then the heat shrink.  I have done hundreds and never had one come back.  Same with any other boat or trailer wiring except that in the bilge area or on a trailer I wipe off the excess grease after crimping, paint the connection with 5200, then slip the heat shrink over it.  Yes, it's messy but it will last a lifetime.
Politics have no relation to morals.
Niccolo Machiavelli

November 12, 2011, 12:11:26 PM
Reply #2

fitz73222

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Re: Question for the king of wiring, Dear Mr. Seabob
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2011, 12:11:26 PM »
Quote from: "John Jones"
I have been doing electronic work for 40+ years.  I have ALWAYS used dielectric grease on my exposed electrical or electronic connections.  No it is not conductive.  A good electrical connection depends on the mechanical connection.  If you have a solid mechanical connection it will not cause any issues.  The grease will be forced out of the way of the metal parts where they touch.  You don't want conductive grease on something like a gps/depthfiinder plug or you would be shorting the pins together.  When I build battery cables I shoot the lug full of the grease, stick the cable in the lug, then crimp the lug.  Then the heat shrink.  I have done hundreds and never had one come back.  Same with any other boat or trailer wiring except that in the bilge area or on a trailer I wipe off the excess grease after crimping, paint the connection with 5200, then slip the heat shrink over it.  Yes, it's messy but it will last a lifetime.


Thanks JJ,
I'll take your 40 years of experience and put it to good use! One fellow during our discussion last night was saying to use epoxy heat shrink tubing; all of the electrical connections on my AS were done using the white epoxy shrink tubing. All I have is the standard black. Any validity to his claim. I'd use it if I could find it.
1973 Aquasport 22-2, twin 115 Mercs
2000 Baycraft 175 flats boat, 60 Bigfoot Merc
1968 Boston Whaler 13, 25 Yamaha (project)
1966 Orlando Clipper 13, 9.9 Merc

November 12, 2011, 02:37:00 PM
Reply #3

seabob4

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Re: Question for the king of wiring, Dear Mr. Seabob
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2011, 02:37:00 PM »
Fitz, JJ,
A couple of interesting reads...

Quote
Dielectric grease is a non-conductive, silicone grease designed to seal out moisture and, therefore, prevent corrosion on electrical connectors. Being non-conductive, it does not enhance the flow of electrical current. This property makes it an ideal lubricant and sealant for the rubber portions of electrical connectors.

Dielectric grease is typically a translucent, grey substance that is insoluble in substances such as ethanol, methanol, mineral oil, and water. It is soluble, however, in the industrial solvent methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) and mineral spirit. It is important to note that dielectric grease will melt silicone rubber over time, and thus should not be used on connectors, such as o-rings, that are made of this rubber.

While the indicated use of dielectric grease calls for it to be used only on the non-metal parts of a connection, it has been shown to be effective at preventing corrosion when applied directly to the metal connectors as well. Care should be taken when using it in this way, because this application can, in some instances, cause the connection to stop working. A common reason for such a failure is that the grease has not been pushed entirely out of the way between the two points of contact.

And...

Quote
Dielectric grease is a nonconductive grease. As such, it does not enhance the flow of electrical current. Thus electrical conductors should not be coated with dielectric grease prior to being mated. Dielectric grease is, however, often applied to electrical connectors, particularly those containing rubber gaskets, as a means of lubricating and sealing rubber portions of the connector.
The widest use of dielectric grease is in high-voltage connections associated with spark plugs. The grease is applied to the rubber boot of the plug wire. This helps the rubber boot slide onto the ceramic insulator of the plug. The grease also acts to seal the rubber boot, while at the same time preventing the rubber from becoming stuck to the ceramic. Generally spark plugs are located in areas of high temperature, and the grease is formulated to withstand the temperature range expected.
Another common use of dielectric grease is on the rubber mating surfaces or gaskets of multi-pin electrical connectors used in automotive and marine engines. The grease again acts as a lubricant and a sealant on the nonconductive mating surfaces of the connector. It is not recommended to be applied to the actual electrical conductive contacts of the connector because it could interfere with the electrical signals passing through the connector.

I coat my bus bars and studs on the battery switch after I have terminated and secured the wires and cables.  More or less using the dielectric grease as a shield from moisture.  In regards to industry usage, Mercury currently states in their rigging manuals to NOT use dielectric grease at all, whereas BRP, Honda, Suzuki don't really care one way or another.  I also use adhesive lined shrink terminals only, the adhesive melts during the shrinking process, then cools and sets, creating the seal.  But you guys know this...

Think about this scenario, the typical Carling Contura switch with spade terminals on the back.  The typical heat shrink, adhesive lined quick disconnects will still leave an opening for moisture, that being the very end of the connector.  Sooo, if we coat the male terminal with dielectric, than push on the QD, we MAY run the risk of not having a good electrical connection due to the fact that dielectric is non-conductive.  Notice I said may.  


The real key is to use the proper wire/cable, the proper tools to provide the best possible crimp, and the best terminals.  Keep in mind also, the environment that boat spends most of it's life in has a great deal to do with the longevity of it's electrical system.  Another important factor is boat cleanliness and maintainance.  Allowing water to sit in the bilge is extremely detrimental to the entire boat, as the wiring in the bilge is connected to every thing else via the ground.  The boats I re-wire, the bilge wiring is in horrendous condition, corrosion wise, the helms not so bad.  But the corrosion eminates from the back end, traveling through the ground path mostly, then through the switches, motors, breakers, etc. through the positive side...

Sorry for the long post, just my thoughts...


Corner of 520 and A1A...

November 12, 2011, 04:19:03 PM
Reply #4

John Jones

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Re: Question for the king of wiring, Dear Mr. Seabob
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2011, 04:19:03 PM »
I don't disagree with anything you posted Bob.  As far as the dielectric grease MAY cause a problem, all I can say is that I have never seen it.  I have rewired a few boats in my day plus trailers, cars, thousands of connections in industrial electronic equipment with never an issue.  The key to no corrosion is keeping the oxygen off the connectors.  If the mechanical connection is not good enough to push the grease out of the way then that needs fixed first IMO.

Remember, everything that I post here is only worth $0.02.    ;)
Politics have no relation to morals.
Niccolo Machiavelli

November 12, 2011, 05:53:03 PM
Reply #5

seabob4

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Re: Question for the king of wiring, Dear Mr. Seabob
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2011, 05:53:03 PM »
JJ, I completely agree.  Each of us has our own way of completing the project or task, and what has worked for us will continue to work for us.

I use a quality (Greenlee) crimper, and, believe it or not, the HF hyd crimper for my battery terms (up to 00 GA), well, I dare an elephant to pull off those lugs!


Corner of 520 and A1A...

November 12, 2011, 07:20:54 PM
Reply #6

John Jones

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Re: Question for the king of wiring, Dear Mr. Seabob
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2011, 07:20:54 PM »
Yeah, I use a Klein crimper.  I bought an expensive Ancor crimper but I don't like using it.  I have an old hand powered battery cable crimper.  It's about 3' long but it's a cam action and like you, I dare someone to try to pull the wire out of the lug.  (don't you just love the ones you replace that were crimped by flattening them with a hammer?  :roll: )
Politics have no relation to morals.
Niccolo Machiavelli

November 12, 2011, 07:36:26 PM
Reply #7

seabob4

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Re: Question for the king of wiring, Dear Mr. Seabob
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2011, 07:36:26 PM »
Quote from: "John Jones"
Yeah, I use a Klein crimper.  I bought an expensive Ancor crimper but I don't like using it.  I have an old hand powered battery cable crimper.  It's about 3' long but it's a cam action and like you, I dare someone to try to pull the wire out of the lug.  (don't you just love the ones you replace that were crimped by flattening them with a hammer?  :roll: )

Sure do!  Grab the lug with a pair of channel locks and pull...nothing to it! :roll:  :roll:

Actually, what you have for a lug crimper is great.  My hand hyd, when I do my crimps with a customer looking on, their eyes get kind of wide, and they say, "That ain't coming off, is it."  


Nope... :thumleft:

BTW, my Klein is at a customers house east of Brandon, hell, east of Valrico.  If I get back that way...


Corner of 520 and A1A...

 


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