Questions installing lifting eyes

[Aquamaniac]

Pretty much have settled on installing lifting eyes to the '73 170. Both existing bow and stern eyes seem too light duty. Also the bow eye does not line up vertically with the existing factory lifting cleat....which prevents tying them together with the lower hinge assembly and a threaded rod.

Judging from all the amazing rebuilds posted, I there are a lot of folks out there with glassing knowledge/experience......so hopefully folks will comment on my present plan......

Thinking I will first cut an access hatch in the floor of the anchor locker. Then mate a solid piece of wood to the inside bow keel area that DOES line up with the lifting cleat ( just forward of existing bow eye.) Then drill two 1/2" holes in the block for stainless bolts to attach the hinge assembly. Glass the block and bolts.....then glass it solidly in position to inside of keel. Suppose I could even fab a stainless strap with four holes to tie the added bolts to the exiting bolts. Then add hinge assembly to the new bolts and link the assembly to cleat with the stainless threaded rod.
The stern eyes seem simpler....just add 1/2' stern eyes by through bolting them a bit inboard on the transom (since you can't access the existing stern eyes)

So.....what do you folks think?
Will this plan work well?
Any advice on the glassing? Materials, layup, technique, etc. etc. that will make this strong and safe to lift her on davits?
Thanks in advance for the help!

[Aquamaniac]

Hmmmmm......was holding off buying the threaded rod and lower hinge assembly until I saw some comments on the plan. No comments.....so guess I'll just wing it. Should work ok if I can get at the area and really glass those 1/2" bolts in well. If anyone has thoughts on layup, all advice welcomed!

[wingtime]

They key here is transferring the load from the cap to the hull.  As you know that is done with the threaded rod that connects the lift ring/cleat to the bow eye.  You have to back up the bow eye with some type of a hardwood.  I would only use epoxy in this case.  The closer you can get the wood backing block to the shape of the inside of the hull the better.  Of course you will not get it perfect so I would make a filler out of epoxy and milled fibers.  Again strength is the key here particularly compression and bonding strength. That's why I suggest epoxy.  Also coat the wood block with epoxy so it does not rot in time.  Cover the block with some heavy mat and let cure.  Drill the eye bolt holes slightly oversize.  Coat the insides of the hole with epoxy as well.  This gives you another water barrier inside the wood.  For the backing plate that the rod attaches to.. try to get the one made from solid stainless.  Not the ones that are made of a strap folded over on itself.

[CLM65]

Sorry I missed your previous post.  It sounds like you are planning to "glue" an attachment point inside your hull to carry the load?  I'm a little old fashioned.  While I respect the bonding abilities of a good epoxy, I would be constantly worried about that joint holding up.  I would feel much much better if there were mechanical fasteners involved.  That is the beauty of the engineered lifting eye assemblies that attach to the bow eye.  How far forward of the bow eye is the lifting cleat?  From the attached link, it looks like at least some offset is required (at least for the Accon assembly).  I think they are all pretty much this way.

http://shop.acconmarine.com/products/15-round-lifting-eye.aspx#

For the stern eyes...I am not familiar with the configuration.  Did they install the existing eyes before they assembled the boat?  Could you access the backside if you cut a couple access holes?  I'm trying to picture how your boat will look with a pair of stern eyes close to each other on each side.  You have a beautiful boat.  I would hate to see it look...cheesy (no offense).  I'm sure the other 170 owners on here can come up with a good solution.  And what size are the existing stern eyes?  Keep in mind that as they get beefier, the centerline spacing between the holes will need to get a little bigger too. 

[Aquamaniac]

Thanks guys,

WT: I think we are on same track and definitely going with epoxy. Actually not replacing the factory U bolt.....it does not line up with lifting cleat. Will be just epoxying 2 stainless 1/2" x  4" bolts through the wood block. The hinge assembly I was looking at is indeed the stainless strap folded over the drilled/tapped pin. The Accon assembly looks to be one piece....but $75. You think the strap type is not any good?
BTW.....pm'd you about the cover

CLM: There will be mechanical fasteners....but still banking on the adhesion strength of epoxy since the fasteners will be inside the bow, not through it. Hopefully I can make the wood block / bolts 'part' of the keel with enough epoxy and glass. Lined up with the cleat! Then I will attach the hinge assembly (both the strap type and the solid type have an offset....just not enough.
You hit on the problem with the factory eyes.....can't just replace them with 1/2" u bolts (even IF I could access them) because the spread is larger on the 1/2".
I was not planning on mounting the stern eyes close to the factory eyes. They will be about 10" inboard ...which is a bit inboard of where the transom dips down. Yes, another couple of stainless eyes on the stern, but shouldn't look too out of whack (????) Maybe I will try to take a pic or two with marks where I would drill.

I appreciate the help!

[dirtwheelsfl]

Sounds like a good plan to me. Id be on the lookout for a hunk of ipe wood. Real tough stuff...

[wingtime]

I found my solid piece at my local marine store. I forget how much it cost but it was way south of $75.

I'd through bolt it. A second eye could not hurt.

[Aquamaniac]

Well, the plot thickens.....
Had a chance to check out how I was going to get access to inside keel to mount the base. Turns out I might not have to chop anything! Where a 5/8" stainless rod intersects the deck is RIGHT in the 'corner' of hull sides and deck. My thoughts are this: that should be a very strong area. Why not simply glass the plate of the base to the deck in a position that the rod will thread into the cross bar of the base? This would rely on the strength of the epoxy and glass bond....but would obviate cutting the deck surface ( which as I understand the design of this boat requires the deck is sealed)
Anyone out there have any thoughts on this????

Here are some pics of the area:

The threaded bar I threaded into the cleat.....

here is where it lines up......


Also....here is a pic of what I had in mind for placement of 1/2" stern u bolts.....X marks the spot!

[Aquamaniac]

Well, I agonized over whether or not my plan would work.....but finally decided it would indeed be sufficient, if not over engineered......so go for it.
Made a 3 layered plywood sandwich with the stainless bolts/fender washers in place and fully epoxied. Put down a base layer of cloth and epoxy then placed the sandwich.
Laid up a bunch of fiberglass cloth and epoxy......about 3 yards worth ....along with  milled glass and Cabosil to fill and fair any gaps.
Base plate attached and threaded rod connected to it and lifting cleat beautifully.
All holes on deck sealed with silicone.
The 1/2" stern eyes install went smoothly ......after I cobbled up a jig to perfectly drill the through holes in transom. Added a 3x4" 3/16 stainless plate on both sides of transom.
Everything seemed good....but proof is in the pudding......here it is on the davits!

Bow lifting cleat mount....



Hopefully it will still be hanging in the morning! 

[RickK]

Was it still hanging?  Looks like it'll be strong enough. Hard to really tell but it looks like you glassed onto the wood platform?

[Aquamaniac]

Hey Rick,
Yep.....still hanging in there! 
Has been up and down several times now and nothing seems to have budged.
The wood you see (not the wood for the door latch) is the plywood/epoxy/bolts sandwich I made first....then laid into base of resin/ milled glass/wetted cloth at the juncture of anchor locker floor, hull sides, and bow keel.
While everything still wet, used epoxy/ milled glass 'putty' to smooth and fill any voids at edges....then laid multiple layers of cloth at various angles over the sandwich and extending up onto hull and keel as well as back over the locker floor.
Once everything was cured, mounted the lower assembly to the two bolts, threaded in the 5/8" rod and the lifting cleat. Good thing is...everything lined up! Cleat went right back down on deck and the four bolts went right in.
Really hope it is a strong enough bond....but feel it should be using epoxy and with the number of layers I added. Guess time will tell!

[RickK]

Should be ok - my only concern was the quality of the pre-existing glass work on the locker floor.  That seemed like the weak link to me.
Based on the glass you added and lamming up the hull sides, it's probably over-built now 

[Aquamaniac]

I was concerned with that as well.....but when I found that the line of force from cleat downward hit right at "point" of the floor....effectively the keel.....I felt a lot better.
You can see the placement of the lower end of the 5/8" rod in one pic.
Went through a lot of epoxy and cloth......so sure hope it is WAY over built. Sure don't want to see something give way!