Replace Transom before changing to new engines? (19-6)

[dartbear]

Today is Sept 1 2014.
I own a 19-6 CC OB , 1984 model.

I want to install 2 new engines and believe I should get the transom replaced first, present one has several small cracks in gelcoat
where it joins gunnels both port and starboard. Asking reader input on need to replace transom. and on present/new engine plan below.
Have located an experienced shop in Wisconsin west of Milwaukee that has done 100's of new transoms on similar sized boats used for fishing like I do.

How can I be certain new transom will be strong enough when I replace 140 HP 1984 Johnson plus 9.9 HP Johnson kicker?
Plan to replace big Johnson with 115 Hp or 130 HP Evinrude Etec: is this enough power for northern Lake Michigan offshore up to ten miles?
(Occasionally pull water skiers)
Plan to replace 9.9 Johnson with Evenrude Etec 15 HP kicker. pro- style for slow trolling 0.5 mph to 2.7 mph.

Any and all suggestions appreciated, see below for how I fish.

I fish for King Salmon offshore out of Baileys Harbor slow troll spoons and/or dodger flies,
and smallmouth and walleye in Green bay out of Sister Bay.

Thanks,
dartbear

[fitz73222]

Tilt your current engine all the way up and lean hard on the gearcase and note the transom flex. If its more than 3/8" then it may be time. People get hung up on transom flex and it sounds like your cracking is superficial. If you don't have significant delaminatiion on the top, it's probably good for years. My transom on my 22-2 has flexed for years with no cracking beyond minor spider webs in the gelcoat and it is 20% water logged about 10" up from the bottom. I have 750# of twin 115's on an original transom, 1973 vintage. Every boat is different so it's up to you.Do the flex test and see what you have.

[Georgie]

DB-

Based on the info provided, you have the last year of 140 crossflow which means your "big johnson" (insert myriad of jokes here   ) is likely to be far lighter than any 115 or 130 you can find of current vintage, and it's also the last generation of engine with horsepower rated at the driveshaft and not at the prop, so your 140 is actually more like a current 110/115 performance-wise.  The old crossflows (I have several) weigh in around 300-310 lbs, so you can use that for comparison when shopping.  Regarding the transom, I agree with Farley.  You should just go through the standard tests (moisture meter, flex test by bouncing on lower unit, tap with hammer, etc.) and if it more or less checks out, know that you'll probably be fine hanging any appropriately weighted new motor on the boat.  Hope that helps a bit.  In a more simplistic sense, if your transom currently doesn't act like it's about to tear out of the back of the boat when underway, then it's probably perfectly adequate as-is.  Failing transoms are generally pretty obvious with the amount of flex under load.

[dartbear]

fitz and georgie, thanks for your replies!
Could you teach me how to try flexing transom with a static load ( me) and how to tap with hammer and where to check with moisture meter?

I envision cranking the 140 up while on trailer and putting a lot of my 200 pounds on it by pulling down above prop? And having a partner measure the flex?
Need your pointers on the 3 tips as I am new to all this.

Also, I'm hoping to mount an Etec 115 plus an Etec 25 kicker longshaftwith power trim/tilt in place of the J140 and the present J9.9,
I'd be adding around 200 pounds compared to weight of present engines, and drilling new holes in old transom,
will old transom be strong enough? Need to be sure about this. I'll try to attach a pic or two of my present setup showing transom and engines.
Thanks for your interest!
DB
PS pics will follow separately when I figure that out

[CTsalt12]

My boat has no visible flex whatsoever, but by tapping it sounds waterlogged, and has gelcoat cracks on both sides where the transom meets gunnels.  You should be ok.  

The way I test that was taught to me by an experienced mechanic/general boat guy is to just stand on the cavitation plate with it trimmed almost all the way down so your keel won't  hit the ground.  They bounce a bit with your eyes on the transom.  Make sure your buddy is standing on the front of the trailer or it's hooked up to your car...

As for tapping, just use a mallet or hammer and tap from top to bottom.  It will sound different in waterlogged/rotten areas, more hollow and dull sounding as opposed to a sharper tap on strong areas.  Some areas in my floor were really waterlogged, like totally rotten, and the floors weren't soft at all.  So I'd really advise to just use the flex test.  These boats were built really well in this era I believe.

J

[dartbear]

Thanks a lot Jimbo, very helpful!
can't wait to get back there next week or two, and try your suggestions.
I'm in Illinois at home for a spell, the boat is at our place in Northeast Wisconsin.
I'm aiming at some really good upgrades for better fishing, have them done over winter.

[dburr]

Dart, this may read a little silly, but why are you hung up on the Etecs? Do you want them or just think 'cause you have old iron you need to go new? Old motors, well taken care of, especially northern motors on non commercial boats will out last us and have a proven record of reliability.  So don't let some young high tech data phone carrying engine sales guy talk you out of something that has been running well every season for what, 30 years??..

Now, if you WANT new motors because they ARE cool (or the Big Boss won't get on the boat with that ugly old thing hangin off the back), different story altogether sir and we will be MORE then happy to help you spend your money! Right time right reason deal and the money saved on motors will help get some pretty nice electronics..

Welcome aboard!!!

[dartbear]

This is a reply , with many thanks for your comments so far, to all of you who have been so helpful in your replies so far- Dave from Maine on Sept 13, Jimbo on Sept 12, and both Ryan and Fitz on Sept 1. Thank you all!
In a few days when the wind drops here I'll pull by boat out, get it onto its trailer, and test the transom health, especially as suggested
by standing on the cavitation plate while trailer is connected to Explorer and tapping, and maybe using others suggestions too.

I want to start by responding to Dave's question about why buy new engines. Dave and all, its always been about better fishing results:
My main engine can only troll down to about 2.5 mph in most situations, and this is after I down pitched my prop to 17 inches from 19 inches. I've learned 2.5 mph is usually too fast is too fast to fish the very effective dodger-fly combos behind dipsy divers. ( And my 140 Johnson sometimes stalls a out at low troll speeds- annoying)
Hence most fishermen using dodger-fly- dipsys out of Baileys Harbor clean up on King Salmon in July, and I don't. I've seen the results first hand! But I didn't understand why until I talked with more fishermen and got into details on troll speed.
Plus, my 9.9 HP Johnson short shaft while it will troll more slowly, won't hold a study trolling speed well, it wanders a lot- bad for a guy who ofter fishes  alone and can't babysit the throttle setting.
So, I've changed my new engine plan two ways and also opted for some new modern electronics.
About the engines- if my transom passes muster for OK condition I'll keep my J140 as the main engine for getting out to the fishing grounds fast, and Ill both chafe my plugs more ofter and use nothing by gas with no ethanol in it for the more reliable engine performance I've had in 2014 by doing this.
For trolling I'm now going for a new yamaha 9.9 4 cycle electric start power trim tilt married to a trollmaster device- I'm told these are the cats meow for managing slow trolling speeds but Trollmaster only makes models that work with 4 cycle outboards.
Also, I'm going to replace one of my Penn Manual down riggers with an electric down rigger and add a device that tells me water temperature and trolling speed AT DEPTH- said to be essential for the best results.
Now I'll upload a few pics to show what my 19-6 looks like as presently equipped and the present cracks in the gelcoat at top of transom port and starboard. Thanks again guys and if you have anymore comments I'd very much welcome them. Dartbear on Sept 21 2014.

[dartbear]

don't know why I can't see the 4 pics I uploaded a couple minutes ago, I thought successfully.
Can anyone advise me on how to find the pics??
dartbear 9.21.2014 2 pm CT

[dartbear]

Guys I found my pics by going to Aquasport home page then photo  gallery then Aquasport 196 then seeing Sept 21 2014 2:17 PM by dart bear there are 4 photos please ignore the labels I did't know what I was doing so labels that stuck are a bit confusing.

There are two general view of my 19-6 at present on its boat lift, and two pics of the cracks in gelcoat at top of transom, one starboard, one port.

Thanks for your patience, I'm not shilled at the site yet

DB

[dburr]

From Darts photo album..

[redemn93]

from what ive seen, those cracks are extremely common on these boats.  mine had it before and after new transom.  once they developed on the new transom i marked each one with a dot from a sharpie to see how far it spreads.  once done spreading, i ground down to clean glass, filled/shaped and touched up.  cant tell they were there.  i blame it on a poor design from the factory.  there is just no support at the upper corners.

[Capt. Bob]

from what ive seen, those cracks are extremely common on these boats.  mine had it before and after new transom.  once they developed on the new transom i marked each one with a dot from a sharpie to see how far it spreads.  once done spreading, i ground down to clean glass, filled/shaped and touched up.  cant tell they were there.  i blame it on a poor design from the factory.  there is just no support at the upper corners.

I agree.
They were present on my 84 CCP and I'd bet on my 86 170 (though I can't seem to recall that far back). The 84 is still running on the factory transom (spoke with the current owner) but it is scheduled for a replacement this year. I'm curious to see if they show again after the rebuild.

[redemn93]

they did on mine.  but once you grind and fill, you should be good to go.  its just too large or an area without knees to be holding the v6 motors most of us are running.

[dartbear]

Guys, thanks form the info on the cracks, much appreciated.
Update on my transom stress test results- I stressed it two ways, standing on cavitation plate with engine all way down, and puling down hard (~ 200#) with engine raised high as able. ( both while on trailer and connected to tow vehicle ).

No measurable transom deflection either way!
AND ALL THE HAMMER TAPS WERE SHARP EVERYWHERE.

Thanks to all of you who have commented,
very helpful to me who just decided to update my boat for better fishing with a new kicker and some modern electronics. With these stress test results I'll keep my old main engine (1984 Johnson V4 140 HP) to get out to the fishing grounds, then troll using a new Yamaha kicker, 4 strokes work with Trollmaster but 2 strokes do not.
AND THANKS FOR THE VERY RECENT TIPS ON FIXING THE GELCOAT CRACKS AT TRANSOM TOP PORT AND STARBOARD.
THIS USER GROUP IS A TREASURE, SO MUCH HELP. THANKS AGAIN.

DB