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Author Topic: Inboard rebuild thread  (Read 1353 times)

September 23, 2013, 12:38:00 PM
Reply #15

Geckert3611

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2013, 12:38:00 PM »
Might have to find another 24 guy for this one because I can tell you if I had to raise my floor enough to "cover" my motor I would have about a foot or less of freeboard.

September 23, 2013, 12:40:57 PM
Reply #16

wingtime

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2013, 12:40:57 PM »
I don't think you have enough of a deep vee for anything like that.
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September 24, 2013, 11:30:00 PM
Reply #17

seabob4

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2013, 11:30:00 PM »
Johnny, go with a single, preferably a 350 MAG.  Even with twin 3.0 4s, the spacing is gonna be tight, as, like you said, can't push the props too far out.  With the mag, you have 300 HP.  Want a bit more, go with the 7.4 standard, that gives you 310, but at a weight trade-off, no real difference.  The 6.2 will give you 320, but a newer motor and a bit more pricey...

3.0s were rated at 135 HP, so getting them close to get the prop spacing right (and make maintainence a PITA!!!) will only get you 270 HP...


Corner of 520 and A1A...

September 24, 2013, 11:47:40 PM
Reply #18

Tx49

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2013, 11:47:40 PM »
Quote from: "Geckert3611"
Might have to find another 24 guy for this one because I can tell you if I had to raise my floor enough to "cover" my motor I would have about a foot or less of freeboard.
Quote from: "wingtime"
I don't think you have enough of a deep vee for anything like that.
Quote from: "seabob4"
Johnny, go with a single, preferably a 350 MAG.  Even with twin 3.0 4s, the spacing is gonna be tight, as, like you said, can't push the props too far out.  With the mag, you have 300 HP.  Want a bit more, go with the 7.4 standard, that gives you 310, but at a weight trade-off, no real difference.  The 6.2 will give you 320, but a newer motor and a bit more pricey...

3.0s were rated at 135 HP, so getting them close to get the prop spacing right (and make maintainence a PITA!!!) will only get you 270 HP...

I have about agreed with you all. I have had the 5.7/6.2 as my basic fall back all along. I was just really wanting to try diesel if I could figure out a way, and I just haven't been able too. Geckert, I can live with the high deck, its not going to be in the cockpit or the cabin, just in the helm area. So I guess I just need to stick with the gas inboard single plan.
Johnny

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1970 Aquasport 240 CC SeaHunter


September 24, 2013, 11:51:50 PM
Reply #19

seabob4

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2013, 11:51:50 PM »
Johnny, what about a 315 Yanmar?  Too tall?


Corner of 520 and A1A...

September 24, 2013, 11:58:36 PM
Reply #20

Tx49

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2013, 11:58:36 PM »
Quote from: "seabob4"
Johnny, what about a 315 Yanmar?  Too tall?

As far as I can tell. It also seems that with a lot of the diesels I can live with the engine dimensions, but by the time you add the exhyaust and turbos etc, It just takes up toomuch room.  I haven't been able to find good install dimensions on the low rpm diesels like I can find on the mercruiser gas stuff.
Johnny

Success belongs to the Team, Failure belongs to the Leadership.

1970 Aquasport 240 CC SeaHunter


September 25, 2013, 12:03:41 AM
Reply #21

seabob4

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2013, 12:03:41 AM »
You're gonna have exhaust routing issues with the gassers as well...

The way I look at it, you would probably have a 6" step up if you located the Yanmar under the leaning post (where we used to install them at Stamas), the hollow of the leaning post inside takes care of clearance for the heat exchanger and turbo (the highest points of the motor) without having any deck height increases if you were to move aft with the engine...unless of course you want to move it all the way aft and do a V-drive...


Corner of 520 and A1A...

September 25, 2013, 04:14:41 PM
Reply #22

Tx49

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2013, 04:14:41 PM »
Quote from: "seabob4"
You're gonna have exhaust routing issues with the gassers as well...

The way I look at it, you would probably have a 6" step up if you located the Yanmar under the leaning post (where we used to install them at Stamas), the hollow of the leaning post inside takes care of clearance for the heat exchanger and turbo (the highest points of the motor) without having any deck height increases if you were to move aft with the engine...unless of course you want to move it all the way aft and do a V-drive...

Not a cc-unless I just give up all my plans. If I do that I'll probably just hang an OB on it and go on.
Johnny

Success belongs to the Team, Failure belongs to the Leadership.

1970 Aquasport 240 CC SeaHunter


September 25, 2013, 05:10:12 PM
Reply #23

seabob4

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2013, 05:10:12 PM »
Johnny, think this through.  First and foremost, decide what kind of cash outlay you want to do for the motor...gas or diesel.  New or used.  Tranny and down angle.  Underwater gear and install/mods to make it happen.  If you determine that an I/B can fit your budget, then get the dimensions of the gassers (Merc, Volvo, Crusader, all the same blocks so that's a wash) and the diesels.  I suggest the Yanmar because of it's narrow footprint, narrower than Cummins or DD.  You're gonna have to have a step up in the cockpit, regardless, as they just won't fit under the deck, without raising the whole deck...which I wouldn't.  But you'd be surprised how quickly you can get used to a step up.

Like I said last night, if you don't mind a motor box aft, consider a V-drive install.  But anyway you look at it, do some thinking, visualize the setup and install, plan for all the components that go along with an I/B install.  One of the neat things about O/B installs, short of the fuel tank, everything is hanging off the back end of the boat... :thumright:


Corner of 520 and A1A...

September 25, 2013, 08:29:27 PM
Reply #24

Tx49

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2013, 08:29:27 PM »
Bob,
That's what I'm doing. I am really grateful for everyone's input. I really do want a clean transom. That's why the IB. Again, I don't miond the step up. My understanding is that I shoud be about 11-13 feet from the front of my in board engine to the transom for a 24-27 ft boat. With that as a ballpark starting point, my stringers are around 20" high right now and that puts the engine in the helm/cabin area. Cockpit would be clean, small area coinciding with helm would be raised and then a step down into the cabin. Since there will be cabin sides where the step up is there is no real worry about the high freeboard there. I am aready raising the foor 4-6" and panning to add a 4-6" bulwark from the cockpit to the cabin sides,
Johnny

Success belongs to the Team, Failure belongs to the Leadership.

1970 Aquasport 240 CC SeaHunter


September 25, 2013, 08:38:27 PM
Reply #25

seabob4

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2013, 08:38:27 PM »
So V-Drive is out of the question, correct?  Seeing as I've mentioned it twice, I would assume so.  Another concept (been done here before) is to create a prop pocket, such that the engine could be lowered and moved aft, yet still maintain the shaft angle you want.

As far as stringer height, adjust downward accordingly.  Just because you have 20" tall stringers in the potential engine location doesn't mean the mounts have to sit on top.  You'll notch the stringers to create the engine beds.  Yanmar and Cummins straight 6's usually sit on around 10" high engine beds, given the necessary keel depth...


Corner of 520 and A1A...

September 25, 2013, 10:22:51 PM
Reply #26

Tx49

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2013, 10:22:51 PM »
Yes v-drive is out. Your point about engine mounting is the same as I am trying to make. I already have 20"+/- from hull to stringer top. That means that if I raise the deck 4", I now have 24". I am not sure how much clearance I need between hull and bottom of engine. But I know that this 24" gives me a lot of room to work with. How does the pocket allow me to lower the engine. Is it because the front doesn't have to be tilted up as far?
Johnny

Success belongs to the Team, Failure belongs to the Leadership.

1970 Aquasport 240 CC SeaHunter


September 26, 2013, 08:27:12 AM
Reply #27

seabob4

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2013, 08:27:12 AM »
Quote from: "Tx49"
Yes v-drive is out. Your point about engine mounting is the same as I am trying to make. I already have 20"+/- from hull to stringer top. That means that if I raise the deck 4", I now have 24". I am not sure how much clearance I need between hull and bottom of engine. But I know that this 24" gives me a lot of room to work with. How does the pocket allow me to lower the engine. Is it because the front doesn't have to be tilted up as far?

I like a 2" minimum clearance between the oil pan and the hull bottom.  This is to keep the pan from sitting in bilge water, which inevitably seems to happen on a lot of I/B and I/O installs.  Rusting out oil pans is not a good thing.  But you also have consider clearance for ancillary equipment mounted to the engine (fuel coolers on Mercruisers are good examples), as well as tranny bell housing clearance.

Prop pockets have several benefits, as well as some drawbacks.  The main benefit is significantly lower engine height, thus a lower deck.  Think about the angle the shaft has to be at coming off the output flange of the tranny in order for the prop to clear on a standard I/B install with a standard keel.  Now remove a good portion of that keel by creating a prop pocket, and the prop can be moved upward a good distance.  Thus, the down angle of the output flange of the transmission can be significantly reduced, and, by geometry, the engine naturally has to be lowered...thus lowering your deck height.  Note the various down angles offered by Hurth on this chart...http://simplicity-marine.com/Hurth-ZF.htm  The other significant benefit of a shallower angle is increased prop efficiency.  A prop works best when it's thrust is parallel to the hull bottom.  While that's never gonna happen on an I/B, less of a propshaft angle in relation to the hull bottom gets the prop closer to the desired parallel position.

The main drawback to prop pockets is loss of stern lift as the water no longer has a relatively flat section of hull to work on.  This is more pronounced with deeper V's than your hull (I assume 12* of deadrise), but that loss can be compensated with larger tabs than an O/B or I/O version of the hull might use.  But you need tabs anyway as I/Bs can't be trimmed, so it's sort of a moot point.

I'd like to see you get this done, it just takes a little thought...


Corner of 520 and A1A...

September 27, 2013, 01:31:00 AM
Reply #28

Tx49

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2013, 01:31:00 AM »
Quote from: "seabob4"

I like a 2" minimum clearance between the oil pan and the hull bottom.  This is to keep the pan from sitting in bilge water, which inevitably seems to happen on a lot of I/B and I/O installs.  Rusting out oil pans is not a good thing.  But you also have consider clearance for ancillary equipment mounted to the engine (fuel coolers on Mercruisers are good examples), as well as tranny bell housing clearance.

Prop pockets have several benefits, as well as some drawbacks.  The main benefit is significantly lower engine height, thus a lower deck.  Think about the angle the shaft has to be at coming off the output flange of the tranny in order for the prop to clear on a standard I/B install with a standard keel.  Now remove a good portion of that keel by creating a prop pocket, and the prop can be moved upward a good distance.  Thus, the down angle of the output flange of the transmission can be significantly reduced, and, by geometry, the engine naturally has to be lowered...thus lowering your deck height.  Note the various down angles offered by Hurth on this chart...http://simplicity-marine.com/Hurth-ZF.htm  The other significant benefit of a shallower angle is increased prop efficiency.  A prop works best when it's thrust is parallel to the hull bottom.  While that's never gonna happen on an I/B, less of a propshaft angle in relation to the hull bottom gets the prop closer to the desired parallel position.

The main drawback to prop pockets is loss of stern lift as the water no longer has a relatively flat section of hull to work on.  This is more pronounced with deeper V's than your hull (I assume 12* of deadrise), but that loss can be compensated with larger tabs than an O/B or I/O version of the hull might use.  But you need tabs anyway as I/Bs can't be trimmed, so it's sort of a moot point.

I'd like to see you get this done, it just takes a little thought...

Man, you are talking me into the prop pocket. :salut:  I had seen that on the diesel the one guy is doing, but I felt like I kept expanding my project. :scratch:  Scope creep if you know what I mean. I would never get the project done. :roll:  But now I am thinking that is worth it. I also may have gotten some news today, that will allow me a better place to store and work on the boat as well as farm our some of the work. If that comes to fruition, it would be awesome. :mrgreen:
Johnny

Success belongs to the Team, Failure belongs to the Leadership.

1970 Aquasport 240 CC SeaHunter


September 27, 2013, 08:51:37 AM
Reply #29

seabob4

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Re: Inboard rebuild thread
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2013, 08:51:37 AM »
Here's a beautiful example on a Shamrock...



Corner of 520 and A1A...

 


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