Whats the History of the 245 Hull?

[Bergertime]

All,

I still consider myself a newbie of sorts as I am a little more than a year into AS ownership.  I was hoping that one of you guys that has been around for a while could help me understand a little more about my hull design and some of the attributes.  As I look at other hulls while I am on the water and at the storage yard there are many shapes and configurations.. Now I know the difference b/t a deep-V and a flats boat or other significant design differences... I am more interested in a deeper understanding of the 245 hull attributes, hydrodynamics and performance.  As such, why is the leading edge of the keel more rounded vs. the same area on a Cape Horn which is sharp.  Was this done with forethought or just the "way" they molded it.  In addition the chines, splash rails, deadrise...   I would be great if someone could help educated me a little. Weird question I know.  I just like the details around things. Thanks.  

B

[Capt. Bob]

why is the leading edge of the keel more rounded vs. the same area on a Cape Horn which is sharp. B

First, I would never be so cavalier as to suggest I know anything about hull design but........
 
Here's a marketing answer to this particular question. Fourth paragraph down (1995 catalog).



Please note that if you leaf through the catalog, this reference to a "plumb hull" appears in the other models (think XPs since they share the same hull as the Osprey) usually in reference to cockpit/cabin space.

My belief is that these hulls are a direct descendant of the early 90s (pre-Euro Transom) hulls with the 210 morphed into the 225 and the 230 into the 245.

Here ends my knowledge of the art of hull design.

[seabob4]

CB, I thought we had discussed the Harry Schoell Delta Conic hull before...well, at least a few years ago...viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5487&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

I don't believe the 245 Osprey/Explorer hull is right off the Schoell drawing board, as it DOES have a strake per side (IIRC).  But I would say without a doubt that it's lineage is the Delta Conic hull.  Schoell is based in Pompano, I'm sure he worked pretty closely with the Hialeah boys...

[RickK]

The Delta conic shape hull of the rare 250 Explorer has no strakes - that baby is a one of a kind.  The normal Explorer (like mine) has a single strake and the prow entry is less sharp that the 250.

[seabob4]

Rick, I think if we go back and look at the "great" hulls of all time...the 233 Formula, the Bertram Moppie, any number C. Ray Hunt's designs, Schoell's Delta Conics and Duo-Delta Conics (stepped version), there are a ton of boats out there that can draw their heritage from but a handful of designs.  I could go on and on in regards to where did this hull come from, who splashed what hull to make this boat, who has sued who, etc., etc.  Suffice it to say, I would be 99.5% positive that Bruce's 245 Osprey hull has it's origins in the Delta Conic...with, of course, some minor tweaking here and there so that Harry wouldn't sue.  After all, he did sue Regal when they came out with their "Fast-trac" hull back in the 90s, which bore some uncanny resemblances to the Duo-Delta Conic...

[RickK]

When I said "one of a kind" I meant for Aquasport.  Never before, never after.

[seabob4]

As I said Bruce, the 245 Osprey and Explorer's hull form has it's roots in the Delta Conic design.  Keep in mind, Harry also did the hull design for Larson, Trojan, among others.  All were variations of the same theme...

[RickK]

We'll have to agree to disagree.    
The typical Explorer has, if you look back into the mid 70's, the same hull design as, especially, the FF model - nothing fancy, a lifting strake and not too sharp of an entry. Different caps for sure.  The hull being designed by Coburn and Sargeant or individually later.
The first showing of a hull without a lifting strake and possibly a delta iconic is the 286 - see our gallery http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3437&title=286-ef-1980s&cat=581.  You'll see a slight convex hull in the prow (like the 250) and no lifting strakes.  I don't remember my buddy Dave 's 250 having extra wide chines which is also a trait of the delta conic design but maybe it does.  Neither does my 230 but I guess defining "extra" is difficult.

It's easy to see that we had just a couple different hull designs that stayed consistent (after the FB) throughout the Hialeah years and then the hulls changed when they came to Sarasota /Bradenton but not until much later.  Yes, the lifting strake was probably copied from, or paid for, (http://www.schoellmarine.com/about.htm) from Schoell but everyone ripped off everyone back in the day. Change it just a tad and it's free.
Unfortunately we don't have catalogs between 98 and '04 (if anyone has one let us know and hopefully we can get copies of it for the library) but that is when Genmar/Wellcraft took over on the hull design - multiple strakes, different liners, etc.  Check out the catalogs in the gallery and you'll see the change.

Schoell did make one cool anchor alternative - http://www.schoellmarine.com/innovations/a_w.htm

[seabob4]

Rick, I think the point I'm trying to make here is that many hull designs, including the Osprey/Explorer hulls, are basically "copies" off of proven hulls, usually designed by guys who REALLY know what they're doing when is comes to hydrodynamics, hull characteristics, strake size and placement (or lack of strakes entirely), chine size and type (hard chines, reverse chines, NO chines), with minor modifications, as you said, to "differentiate", and therefore not infringe on any patent, that any particular hull form may have.  

But in reality, we may never know what the origins of the hull in question are.  The important thing is it works...

[gran398]

One guess is as good as the other. Fact is, to our knowledge there are no existing blueprints regarding specific Aquasport hull design/loft, etc. What may exist from the final producer Genmar is proprietary and unavailable.

We all agree that the best hulls of the day were splashed up and down the East Coast. Take the Formula 24 SB references. Ray Hunt design, Miami to Bimini winner.  In 1980, it was even available as a chopper gun hull from a company known as Beaver Boatworks out of Belhaven, NC. Ran twin V-4 Seadrives. That hull was produced  under many names...including the Albemarle 24. Which was later lofted as the renowned Albemarle 27.

And our beloved 70's 22-2? Splashed by Shamrock, then bastardized. A version of the original is still here in NC without the Shamrock keel.

Point is...the boat biz is like any other. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery.