Attention: Have only 1 page to see today

Author Topic: no spark  (Read 470 times)

July 10, 2013, 05:26:47 PM
Read 470 times

Rhojo

  • Information Offline
  • Posts: 154
no spark
« on: July 10, 2013, 05:26:47 PM »
Johnson 70 '88 model I've lost spark, the engine will turn over but I've got no spark at the plug.

I've disconnected the big red harness and jumped the starter and checked again for spark and I do have spark while doing that. (Thanks for the advice so far Fitz!). What's next? What does this mean, a bad key switch you say Fitz?

I sense a trip into the control box... :scratch:

I've been in there more than once... :pale:
Jon & Rhonda
'79 22-2 Family Fisherman  "Lillypad"


July 10, 2013, 07:10:58 PM
Reply #1

Georgie

  • Information Offline
  • Mechanical Master
  • Posts: 481
Re: no spark
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2013, 07:10:58 PM »
Hi Jon,

Just to be clear, are you talking about no spark on ONE plug, or no spark on ALL plugs?  Can I assume no spark at all?  Was there a prior thread you posted where you discussed some of this with Farley?  For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure the neutral/safety switch in the control box doesn't even allow the engine to turn over when it's open, so the you might be spared another trip into the B...B...B...booooooxxxxx!   :wink: There's definitely a chance it could be the kill circuit (black and yellow wire) since she fires when the red plug is disengaged (which opens the kill circuit therefore preventing the kill circuit from preventing spark).  

ps - forgive my pathetic sense of humor.  Just felt the need to respond to that portion of your opening post.   :mrgreen:
Ryan

1979 246 CCC

1987 Wellcraft 18 Fisherman

July 10, 2013, 08:00:46 PM
Reply #2

Rhojo

  • Information Offline
  • Posts: 154
Re: no spark
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2013, 08:00:46 PM »
Quote from: "Georgie"
Hi Jon,

Just to be clear, are you talking about no spark on ONE plug, or no spark on ALL plugs?  Can I assume no spark at all?  Was there a prior thread you posted where you discussed some of this with Farley?  For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure the neutral/safety switch in the control box doesn't even allow the engine to turn over when it's open, so the you might be spared another trip into the B...B...B...booooooxxxxx!   :wink: There's definitely a chance it could be the kill circuit (black and yellow wire) since she fires when the red plug is disengaged (which opens the kill circuit therefore preventing the kill circuit from preventing spark).  

ps - forgive my pathetic sense of humor.  Just felt the need to respond to that portion of your opening post.   :mrgreen:

Hey G,

Yes, it was no spark on 1,2, and 3 cylinders.
I had asked Farley in a PM what to try 1st when I discovered the no spark condition.
Farley's reply to my PM was try that to eliminate a bad key switch.
Jon & Rhonda
'79 22-2 Family Fisherman  "Lillypad"


July 10, 2013, 09:07:57 PM
Reply #3

fitz73222

  • Information Offline
  • Mechanical Master
  • Posts: 1957
    • http://www.hudson-technologies.com/.
Re: no spark
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2013, 09:07:57 PM »
Hi Jon,
Chances are it is the key switch and its the easiest thing to eliminate in early diagnostics of a no spark condition. They are probably original and are shorting to ground and need to be replaced. If I remember your boat you have side by side mounted standard boxes? I would replace both keyswitches since you are going to have to split them apart anyway. When you're inside the boxes, closely inspect the wiring from the harness to the switches and look for black or green contamination of the wires. You may need to cut back the wiring a considerable amount to find some nice copper again before you make your new splices to the new switches. I don't remember if the harness wiring was tin or nickel plated in those days which would be great for a clean splice. The only place the black and yellow ignition kill circuit would come in contact with ground is in the kill switch innards. Have you ever gotten a shock from the boxes? That may point us in a different direction like a broken black and yellow touching the box case and giving you a taste of ignition energy!
1973 Aquasport 22-2, twin 115 Mercs
2000 Baycraft 175 flats boat, 60 Bigfoot Merc
1968 Boston Whaler 13, 25 Yamaha (project)
1966 Orlando Clipper 13, 9.9 Merc

July 10, 2013, 10:16:27 PM
Reply #4

Rhojo

  • Information Offline
  • Posts: 154
Re: no spark
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2013, 10:16:27 PM »
Quote from: "fitz73222"
Hi Jon,
Chances are it is the key switch and its the easiest thing to eliminate in early diagnostics of a no spark condition. They are probably original and are shorting to ground and need to be replaced. If I remember your boat you have side by side mounted standard boxes? I would replace both keyswitches since you are going to have to split them apart anyway. When you're inside the boxes, closely inspect the wiring from the harness to the switches and look for black or green contamination of the wires. You may need to cut back the wiring a considerable amount to find some nice copper again before you make your new splices to the new switches. I don't remember if the harness wiring was tin or nickel plated in those days which would be great for a clean splice. The only place the black and yellow ignition kill circuit would come in contact with ground is in the kill switch innards. Have you ever gotten a shock from the boxes? That may point us in a different direction like a broken black and yellow touching the box case and giving you a taste of ignition energy!

yep, yep, side by side boxes...

never gotten a shock from the box...

I will open them up tomorrow and look for corrosion, I think i have a source for two switches, I'll make that call...

I'll post findings when i get the boxes open
 :salut:
thanks Farl!
Jon & Rhonda
'79 22-2 Family Fisherman  "Lillypad"


July 12, 2013, 07:17:10 PM
Reply #5

fitz73222

  • Information Offline
  • Mechanical Master
  • Posts: 1957
    • http://www.hudson-technologies.com/.
Re: no spark
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2013, 07:17:10 PM »
Quote from: "Rhojo"
Quote from: "fitz73222"
Hi Jon,
Chances are it is the key switch and its the easiest thing to eliminate in early diagnostics of a no spark condition. They are probably original and are shorting to ground and need to be replaced. If I remember your boat you have side by side mounted standard boxes? I would replace both keyswitches since you are going to have to split them apart anyway. When you're inside the boxes, closely inspect the wiring from the harness to the switches and look for black or green contamination of the wires. You may need to cut back the wiring a considerable amount to find some nice copper again before you make your new splices to the new switches. I don't remember if the harness wiring was tin or nickel plated in those days which would be great for a clean splice. The only place the black and yellow ignition kill circuit would come in contact with ground is in the kill switch innards. Have you ever gotten a shock from the boxes? That may point us in a different direction like a broken black and yellow touching the box case and giving you a taste of ignition energy!

yep, yep, side by side boxes...

never gotten a shock from the box...

I will open them up tomorrow and look for corrosion, I think i have a source for two switches, I'll make that call...

I'll post findings when i get the boxes open
 :salut:
thanks Farl!

Hey John,
Did you go inside the boxes for a look?
1973 Aquasport 22-2, twin 115 Mercs
2000 Baycraft 175 flats boat, 60 Bigfoot Merc
1968 Boston Whaler 13, 25 Yamaha (project)
1966 Orlando Clipper 13, 9.9 Merc

July 15, 2013, 07:29:06 AM
Reply #6

Rhojo

  • Information Offline
  • Posts: 154
Re: no spark
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2013, 07:29:06 AM »
Quote from: "fitz73222"
Quote from: "Rhojo"
Quote from: "fitz73222"
Hi Jon,
Chances are it is the key switch and its the easiest thing to eliminate in early diagnostics of a no spark condition. They are probably original and are shorting to ground and need to be replaced. If I remember your boat you have side by side mounted standard boxes? I would replace both keyswitches since you are going to have to split them apart anyway. When you're inside the boxes, closely inspect the wiring from the harness to the switches and look for black or green contamination of the wires. You may need to cut back the wiring a considerable amount to find some nice copper again before you make your new splices to the new switches. I don't remember if the harness wiring was tin or nickel plated in those days which would be great for a clean splice. The only place the black and yellow ignition kill circuit would come in contact with ground is in the kill switch innards. Have you ever gotten a shock from the boxes? That may point us in a different direction like a broken black and yellow touching the box case and giving you a taste of ignition energy!

yep, yep, side by side boxes...

never gotten a shock from the box...

I will open them up tomorrow and look for corrosion, I think i have a source for two switches, I'll make that call...

I'll post findings when i get the boxes open
 :salut:
thanks Farl!

Hey John,
Did you go inside the boxes for a look?

I did and I couldn't see any corrosion or bad connections. I see a crack in casing of the switch, on the threaded section of plastic that goes through the control box.

I did get new switches on order from DougRussell and they should be here in a few days.

The waiting is the worst part... :bounce:
Jon & Rhonda
'79 22-2 Family Fisherman  "Lillypad"


July 22, 2013, 07:35:06 AM
Reply #7

Rhojo

  • Information Offline
  • Posts: 154
Re: no spark
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2013, 07:35:06 AM »
I'm happy to report that the new ignition switch fixed my no spark condition! The motor fired right up on the first turn. The old switch pretty much fell apart in my hands when I got it out of the control box.

Back on the water!

Thanks for the help Fitz!
Jon & Rhonda
'79 22-2 Family Fisherman  "Lillypad"


 


SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal