1995 Explorer 245 Leaking Hull Mystery

[whaleon]

Good Day All,
This is great to see that there are some knowledgeable and experienced Aquasport people on this forum. I have a 1995 245 Explorer that I bought used from a friend a couple of years ago. We operate this boat as a guide charter boat on the West Coast of Vancouver Island-extreme fishing and just the right boat for the job! The previous owner described to me the boat did have a leak and they thought it was getting through the rub rail in rough weather.  I did find that the forward screws behind the rubrail in the bow had come loose and there was movement of the pulpit from the lower hull.  I bolted the pulpit to the hull, sealed the worn holes under the pulpit and thought this may have cured the problem. Nope!

In rough weather only (no problems in calm weather) a considerable amount of water ends up in the bilge.  We are talking up to 40 gallons.  I have checked all the through hulls and with a hose from the outside and found no leaking (my next step is a pressure washer on the through hulls).  I filled the hold boxes under the seats with water and food coloring to see if there's a leak. No leaks. I have sealed (as best one can) the engine harness wiring entries and even put a tell-tale sponge at the interior side of the entries to see if they get wet.  They stay dry.

So- what's left?  Maybe the water really is getting through the rub rail further down the hull or perhaps under the aluminum transom moulding under the OB clamps?  Any suggestions?

[Capt. Bob]

Welcome aboard Whaleon.

That sounds like a SeaBob question for sure.
40 gals. sounds like quite lot of water.

Are you guys getting a lot on the deck when traveling?
My older craft takes on water when it gets on the deck    but remains quite dry otherwise.

Good luck

[RickK]

Welcome aboard whaleon  :!:  :!:
I think Bob is on to something besides trouble for a change  
I have a hatch in the sole over my fish well and the lip around the edge in my 230 drains right into the bilge.  So in rough weather when there is a lot of water on the deck, I could see how it would do that.  40 gals is a lot though.  The Explorers are not the driest boats in the bunch.

[whaleon]

Hello Gents,
Wow, thanks for your quick replies...  Obviously I didn't give all the facts.  No there is little to no water on the decks.  The decks remain mostly dry.  The deck scupper drains are plumbed directly to the through hulls at the stern via SS ball valves and SS thru hull fittings eg no chance of cracked nylon fittings (Transport Canada regulations- no nylon fittings 6" above the waterline on commercial boats).  Regardless, I have inspected these drains for leakage to no avail.  This is what is so curious that the seemingly obvious answers haven't worked so far.  I am thinking there maybe something more structural in nature.  I keep thinking there maybe something in the rub rail theory.

This brings me to the other point that if the aft bilge pump were to ever calve I'm not sure how I'm going to reach it to change it.  I'm sure someone with Orangutan arms could reach it but certainly not a normal human! I've been trying to think of a way to cut a manway down into the lower hull through, say, the deck fish hatch.  How do other people reach the very bottom of the hull when necessary?  Has anyone else cut an access hole through the fish hold?

Cheers,
Whaleon

[cdoyal]

Check the thread on my 1997 245 and you'll find an answer to the bilge pump replacement. Not easy.
FYI-My rub rail's shot too but no water leaks there.

[whaleon]

Thanks for your input CDOYAL,
I checked out your thread and I know exactly the difficulties you had with changing the bilge pump and I sympathize (for both you and me 'cause I know one day I am going to have to do the same).  We put a Furuno thru hull transducer in and that was exactly the way we had to do it as you did: remove the Stbd. side transom box and one hand the whole operation.  Yikes!!  I am definitely going to consider a way to cut out either a deck section at the fish hold tank or the live bait tank (that I don't use anyway) to provide access to all the equipment in the lower hull. Life is too short to have to go through that pain and turmoil dealing with boat maintenance like this.  If I figure something out I will take photos and a description of what we did so that others can see how to do it.  If anyone has any experience with this it would be appreciated to get your input.

Anyway, I am still dealing with the immediate concern of bilge water level issues.  Yes, 40 gallons is a lot of water.  The high water bilge alarm was accidentally disconnected at one point early in the summer (during battery maintenance post cleaning I presume) and the water covered the batteries in one trip on a rough day.  That gives you some idea how high in the bilge the water got to.  Luckily, the batteries survived the 'sinking'.  That gives some idea of the seriousness of the problem.

Again, if anyone has any ideas how these boats were constructed that water can errantly enter the bilge it would be appreciated to hear from you.

Cheers,
GN

[cdoyal]

I just had my 245 in the water for 48 hours and when I pulled it from the water today and pulled the drain plug, not a drop came out.  

[seabob4]

whaleon,
All Explorers rubrails should have been sealed on the underside from about 18" fore of the top bend of the dogleg aft to the engine mounting area...and I mean sealed GOOD!  Sometimes, due to hull/deck mold mismatches, there was quite a gap at the transom areas, and I would have to shoot a whole bunch of Sikaflex 240 into the gaps before I rub-railed her.  Then I would seal the rubrail with more Sikaflex after it was installed.

It would seem that since the problem rears it's ugly head in rough water conditions, where the boat pitches up and down, this may be the issue.  Try this, shoot a hose on the underside of your rubrail and see if you have water intrusion into the bilge.  Use a "jet" setting, as the pressure in the ocean/gulf is pretty intense.

Back in '97, Matt Bailey, Brian Buck, and myself were given the first 245 Osprey with twin 150 Fichts and an upper station to fish the Palmetto Kiwanis Fishing Tournament out of Palmetto, FL, just north of Bradenton.  BTW, Matt and Brian both work for Donzi, my sister company, now.  Small world.  Anyway, beautiful October day, but windy.  Went out in the Gulf through New Pass.  Well, needless to say, one should've worn rain gear if one was aft of the helm, which I was.  But when we got about 15 miles out and started trolling (that was far enough, we were tired of getting beat up!), I checked the bilge...it was dry as a bone.  And I know I saw those Fichts get burried halfway up the cowlings every 15-20 seconds.  BTW, I caught the only fish that counted, a 4 1/2 lb. span mack.  BFD!

Your bilge should be dry.  Try my advice with the hose and see if that is the source...

Bob C

[whaleon]

Thank you, Bob.  I will try your advise upon the next opportunity the boat is out of the water.

I had a chance today to travel beside the Aquasport as we travelled through some rough water and noticed that the forward bilge thru hull gets positively buried in the rough stuff.  I don't think there is a bilge line check valve and considering how deep the hull was entering the waves that will also be my next move.  I will let you know how all this goes.

As a footnote- have you heard of anyway to modify the hull to access the lower hull components eg the the aft bilge pump?

Cheers,
Whaleon

[seabob4]

whaleon,
You should have 2 forward thruhulls, one for the cabin sink drain and one for the cabin bilge pump.  The bilge pump discharge hose should have a loop in it, and the sink drain hose should run uphill.

Every boat with a cabin has these types of t/hulls.  I doubt that is the source of your water ingress, unless one or both have breached.

Keep us posted on any new developments...

Bob C

[whaleon]

OK.  Done Deal- found the hull leaks!  After installing check valves in the bilge lines and blasting water in various locations with a hose we still hadn't found the leak early this summer after all of our diffculties last summer.  We were still getting 30 to 40 gallons of water on the West Coast trips.  

However, after a months use, we noticed the rub rail on both sides of the transom where the water strikes the hull on the 45 degree 'slope' from hull to pod had a gap up to 3/16" wide.  I suspect the rub rail was 'flexing' from the hull previously and we didn't see the gap but after months of use the gap opened and stayed open to be able to see it. I also think the hose pressure in the original tests were not adequate to separate the rub rail from the hull.  This summers water test with a hose confirmed the leakage at the gapped rub rail.  We Sika-flexed sealed the rear transom section of rail and now have a dry boat.  This winter we will remove the rub rail and inspect for hull separation issues.

Thanks for all the suggestions on solving this issue.

Cheers,
Whaleon

[cdoyal]

OK.  Done Deal- found the hull leaks!  After installing check valves in the bilge lines and blasting water in various locations with a hose we still hadn't found the leak early this summer after all of our diffculties last summer.  We were still getting 30 to 40 gallons of water on the West Coast trips.  

However, after a months use, we noticed the rub rail on both sides of the transom where the water strikes the hull on the 45 degree 'slope' from hull to pod had a gap up to 3/16" wide.  I suspect the rub rail was 'flexing' from the hull previously and we didn't see the gap but after months of use the gap opened and stayed open to be able to see it. I also think the hose pressure in the original tests were not adequate to separate the rub rail from the hull.  This summers water test with a hose confirmed the leakage at the gapped rub rail.  We Sika-flexed sealed the rear transom section of rail and now have a dry boat.  This winter we will remove the rub rail and inspect for hull separation issues.

Thanks for all the suggestions on solving this issue.

Cheers,
Whaleon

Any chance of posting a photo of where it was intruding?

[whaleon]

Hi CDoyl,
Sorry I didn't get back to you on the leaking problem at the rubrail dogleg at the transom.  At the time we sikaflexed all the dogleg areas (top and bottom) of the rubrail on both the port and starboard sides.  That was good but water pressure in rough condition eventually started to pull the sikaflex away from the hull and rail and the leaks started again although not as badly as originally described.  About a month ago I pulled off the entire rubrail assembly and there was a large open gap on the starboard side.  There was a small gap on the port side.  I also noticed ALL of the rubrail screws around the circumference of the hull (except that which I repaired at the pulpit a few years ago) were loose and some protruding hard against the backside of the rubber portion of the rail.  I removed every screw, sikaflexed and re-installed.  Any stripped screws or open drill holes were repaired.  All gaps were sealed and new rubber rail installed.  Altogether over 12 hours of work. I haven't had it in the water yet but it will be in active service soon.  I did not take photos of the gaps but I can take a photo of the starboard side dogleg.

Anyway, you were correct all along about the location of the possible leak.

Cheers,
Whaleon