Soft deck on 1995 245 Explorer - fixable?

[SBH2OMan]

Hello all - new guy here; I've been on the hunt for the "right" boat for over a year, and just stumbled across a boat that on paper seemed to good to be true...  

Well, after looking at the boat, I learned that it was indeed "too good" but perhaps not too bad, depending on what the collective wisdom here has to say.  I have spent hours searching this site, but nothing that quite addressed my question - if this is covered in another thread, please accept my apology and point me to the URL of that thread.  

Here's the issue - its a 1995 245 Explorer according to the HIN, and has obviously just been sitting outside for several years.  It was completely re-wired and re-plumbed in 2008 with good quality stuff, including batteries, switches, pumps (fresh and raw water), macerator (for head), etc.  (Receipts for $10,000 worth of work.) It has twin Yamaha Saltwater Series II motors (1998 vintage) that look to be in very good condition (hours unknown, but claimed at "around 500").

Other than massive oxidation (which has taken its toll on all the hatches and cabinets - most need to be replaced), it looks quite seaworthy EXCEPT for the VERY VERY soft deck.   The current owner installed a Kodiak tank in the center of the cockpit and plumbed the lines through the deck hatch.   The entire deck around the bait tank flexes about 1/2" up and down when you walk on it.  It feels a bit like walking on a piece of 3/8" plywood stretched across the entire beam of the boat.

http://gallery.me.com/bpchristensen/100 ... 8722660001

Based on my reading here, it sounds like the sole plate is a balsa-cored sandwich of fiberglass on top and bottom, bedded into resin on the stringers.  If this is true, then the stringers must be far apart, or they are totally rotten underneath, as there feels like there is no support under the center of the deck.  

There are also some cracks at the corners of the transom and just above the rub rail where the stainless grab rail starts (IIRC).

Apparently this is a common problem?

Is this indicative of greater problems (e.g. rotten stringers, transom, etc)?

What is the recommended procedure for addressing the problem?

Owner is asking $11k for the boat; probably will take 10.   I really wanted something with a hard top, but I suppose that can be added if the price is right....

Thanks in advance!

[Capt. Bob]

SBH2OMan,
First off, welcome aboard.  

Second, the stringers are where they always are. They may be waterlogged but not rotten. They contain no wood.

I believe the cover to the fuel tank is false. That means you should cut a cover if you plan to do deck work.

Last, the way the live well is mounted, water could have been soaking the under deck for years, thus causing the spongy feeling.

[Circle Hooked]

Welcome SB,I'd like to hear some answers to this as well,my floor is fine now but who knows what the future holds,Seabob any ideas.

[RickK]

Welcome aboard SBH2OMan  :!:  :!:  

Look at this pic. This is a pic of my 230 Exp bilge - on each side, those are the stringers, just like in your boat (you may not have the access I do?).
 
Between them just in front of that bilge area is a bulkhead and then the fuel tank (140 gal).

The compartment that the baitwell is mounted above in your pic looks to be the fuel tank compartment, no?
I have some soft, flexy areas in the sole on my 230 on the starboard side right behind the baitwell under the helm seat.  Looks like there was somethig screwed to the sole sometime in the boats life and the holes were not sealed until I got it.  It's not intolerable, especially when I have deck chairs over it

[seabob4]

Well, Scott, and SB, I really can't say what is going on under the deck without actually having a look see.  The 245/250 has a foam filled glass stringer grid, I don't think the problem lies there.  Where I DO think it lies is in two area.  First, water intrusion in the balsa coring of the cockpit sole.  But I think the real problem is separation of the deck from the bonding putty, and/or the putty having cracked and broken off the tops of the stringers, thus leaving at least an inch gap between the stringers and the underside of the sole...

A little story that applies to both of you.  In my 6 years at Wellcraft ('94-'00), the Explorer line was always run by a little Portueguese gentleman named Gemano Bothello.  Nice enough, but a boat couldn't be built fast enough for him.  Now, on our line (Ospreys), when a boat was decked, you didn't go on it until the next day.  In the winter, because of slower curing rates, 24 hours.  Our lines decision, as we knew the putty wouldn't kick in the time prescribed.  On the Explorer line, as soon as the boat was decked, 6 guys were on it, rigging, cabin building, wiring the helm, installing a hardtop...

Anyway, 5-6 guys weight is going to compress that cockpit sole a hell of a lot, in turn compressing the putty underneath it.  Once they move on, the sole returns to it's uncompressed state, but does the putty return with it?  Noooo...

In the wintertime, WS/AS would also kick the putty real hot, in hopes for a faster cure time.  What this does is really build up the temp in the putty, which leads to brittleness, and cracking.  The putty that cracks falls out of the bondline into the bilge, and, guess what?  No more bond...

So, glad to give all a "warm and Fuzzy" feeling about building boats in the Genmar world...

BUT I WOULD STILL OWN A 245/250 OSPREY ANYDAY!!!

[SBH2OMan]

SeaBob's description sounds exactly like the symptoms that this boat is exhibiting - like there is excessive gap between the deck sole and its underlying support, because it is flexing ALL OVER - not just in a couple of tender spots (like you might find with a stringer starting to go or water intrusion into a spot on a deck).

So the big question for me would be - if this is the case (and it very likely sounds like it is) - what is the appropriate way to fix?

Saw out the entire deck (yikes) and then replace with  glass-over-marine ply or something like that?   Sounds like way more of a job than I'd want to tackle...

The good news I guess is that SeaBob's explanation (if true here) means that there isn't necessarily any other systemic damage - rather damage due to the bedding layer having fallen away.

Perhaps there might be a way to cut some hatches and "shore up" the deck, then seal the cracks and holes from top side without cutting it all out and replacing it?

-Brent

[Circle Hooked]

Thanks Bob,good or bad your little stories are very insightful and i enjoy them,my question is i haven't heard of anyone replacing a floor in an explorer yet,which makes me happy,and mine is still solid but SB just got me thinking is all,i would think there would be less involved the an Osprey,with less deck space but thats just a guess.

[Circle Hooked]

SB if you remove the section over the gas tank you can get to the stringers.

[SBH2OMan]

SB if you remove the section over the gas tank you can get to the stringers.

It doesn't sound like the problem is with the stringers - or did you mean in order to support the deck by getting to the area between the stringers and the deck?

[Circle Hooked]

SB if you remove the section over the gas tank you can get to the stringers.

It doesn't sound like the problem is with the stringers - or did you mean in order to support the deck by getting to the area between the stringers and the deck?

[/b]

Thats what i meant to say.

[seabob4]

This is what I would do.  Start with the stringers on the outboard side of the fuel tank.  Place some kraft paper on top of the tank from side to side (keeps the putty drips off the tank).  Mix up about 2 gallons of putty.  Kick it light, not much MEKP, just enough for a nice, light pink color.  Through the deck access plates, stuff putty in between the stringers and the underside of the sole.  Walk away and have many beers, go to bed, see how the sole feels in the morn...

That's what I would do, to start...

[cdoyal]

Owner is asking $11k for the boat; probably will take 10.   I really wanted something with a hard top, but I suppose that can be added if the price is right....

FWIW, last year I paid $11K for my '97 245 with an almost new trailer and 400 hours on the motor. Of course I had to completely rewire it and replace the dash panel and gauges.