Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Generic Aquasport Rebuilding Topics => Topic started by: saltfly on November 05, 2012, 10:37:37 AM
-
Ok I’ve used marine plywood on a number of projects and when properly encapsulated, I’ve never had a problem. But what have others used, when it comes to wood, not any of the foams? A friend who is in the fiberglass repair bis. Suggested Okuame. It looks good and I’m hearing nothing but good about it. But it is costly. Has anyone ever used any of the man made lumbers and if so, how good does fiberglass hold to it? I’m planning a number of projects and cost will enter in to it, since I have so many to do. So I’m trying to plan a head.
-
My builder, Seamark Boats, uses AC fir plywood on everything. Transoms, stringers, decks.
My build is the first all synthetic boat they've ever done.
-
Saltfly I know you have been involved in my project and I know i don't need to mention how much work it is but to me I never want to do the same things over so no wood for me. It will cost some more but you won't have to replace it again. :mrgreen:
Coosa and nidacore. :D
-
Saltfly I know you have been involved in my project and I know i don't need to mention how much work it is but to me I never want to do the same things over so no wood for me. It will cost some more but you won't have to replace it again. :mrgreen:
Coosa and nidacore. :D
That was my thinking too. Even if the deck screws leak down the road...there is nothing to rot.
In theory....these boats could go a LONG time.
-
Saltfly I know you have been involved in my project and I know i don't need to mention how much work it is but to me I never want to do the same things over so no wood for me. It will cost some more but you won't have to replace it again. :mrgreen:
Coosa and nidacore. :D
That was my thinking too. Even if the deck screws leak down the road...there is nothing to rot.
In theory....these boats could go a LONG time.
I'd wonder what happens as these space age materials retain water through penatration. Does it alter their original fabrication and how does it affect (if any) their structural stability e.g. shape/strength.
They may not rot but maybe they get "soft"/separate. :scratch:
Goggled Nicacore. Interesting :idea:
http://nida-core.com/english/nidaprod_h ... _rigid.php (http://nida-core.com/english/nidaprod_honeyinfo_rigid.php)
-
Saltfly I know you have been involved in my project and I know i don't need to mention how much work it is but to me I never want to do the same things over so no wood for me. It will cost some more but you won't have to replace it again. :mrgreen:
Coosa and nidacore. :D
That was my thinking too. Even if the deck screws leak down the road...there is nothing to rot.
In theory....these boats could go a LONG time.
I'd wonder what happens as these space age materials slowly absorb water. Does it alter their original fabrication and how does it affect (if any) their structural stability e.g. shape/strength.
They may not rot but maybe they get "soft". :scratch:
Goggled Nicacore. Interesting :idea:
http://nida-core.com/english/nidaprod_h ... _rigid.php (http://nida-core.com/english/nidaprod_honeyinfo_rigid.php)
That's true Bob. The water must go somewhere.
Whether it get soft or not, with age, good question.
Interesting commentary on their website, tx for the link.
-
The key, with any type of coring material or foam used as flotation or stringer "filling" is to keep it away from water. Period. Whether it be PT ply, fir, end-grain balsa, nida-core, divinylcell, coosa, coremat, you name it. While all the composites can claim a "no rot" attribute, and most will absorb such a small volume of water that it is almost negligeble, it still behooves the builder, or re-builder, to do his best to keep water intrusion into the cored areas to a minimum, optimally, to no intrusion at all.
With proper installation techniques, proper care, and taking ones time to do it right, all the above materials will last years and years with no degradation in the boats structure, as well as minimum weight gain due to accumulated water as well at saturated materials.
One of the biggest issues with foam filled stringers is not the fact that eventually the foam gets saturated, but HOW it got saturated. The method of installation of a foam filled stringer grid is as such. The hollow grid is tabbed into the proper location in the hull. 2-part foam (usually a BASF Isocyanate) is "shot" into the grid, hopefully filling all the grid. "Foam holes" are drilled at various areas on top of the stringers to allow excess foam to expand out, or else the stringers would burst due to foam expansion. Here's where the problem starts. One the foam has kicked off, the excess foam is shaved off, LEAVING MANY THOUSANDS OF OPEN CELLS TO ABSORB WATER. Most often, these holes are either covered with plugs secured with 5200, or are simply painted with gel coat, a permeable membrane. The second real issue stems from the weep holes that are drilled at the base of the stringers to allow compartments within the grid to drain. Most commonly, all that is done to the exposed foam is once again to paint with gel coat...just a step above from doing nothing.
So now you have water sitting in these compartments because the weep holes are a little too high, yet just low enough that water can continually come in contact with the gel coat that "protects" the foam...and over time, absorbtion occurs.
So it really comes down to proper installation and technique more so than choice of materials...IMO.
-
I used okuame to rebuild my fuel tank lid. It seemed pretty good, but I sold the boat so I cant tell you how long it lasts!
-
Capt. Bob my thoughts exactly. The state I was originally froms DNR. Had problems with their Boston Whaler Outrages. They where gaining weight and finding the hull separating from the foam. The problem was the foam used in their hulls. It is only suppose to have a 1 percent moister absorption rate. That is a bench test number and doesn‘t factor in the real world. So they dumped a number of boats and replaced them with new ones. Which started gain weight after only 6 mons. of use. I bought one of the outcast boats. I found what was happening to them and removed the problem parts. It rained, as I put it under that boat for two weeks. After that the boat was taken back to the scales and weighted. It came in at the shipped weight. It lost 235 lbs. of water that was in the foam. A friend who worked for DNR told Jim D that a friend of his found the problem. He called and I told him what the problem was. The guys from BW said that couldn’t happen. I showed them how it did happen. They and the state changed how they did one assembly procedure. And their hasn’t been a problem since. So in the really world of matl. usage, you know the answer. S**t happens. I’ve always gone by the fact if it can happen it will. Besides, I’m 66. Just how many years do I need something to last. These boats have been around along time and still going. I’m sure they will be here longer then me. In fact I know they will. bwahahaha :mrgreen:
Wing the friend that is a fiberglass guy, who told me about okuame. Has a piece of it sitting outside of his shop, and it has been sitting their for 2 years and has no rot. But you have to remember , air can circulate around it and dry it out. But he loves the stuff.
Bob your on the money as well. Proper assembly, solves a lot of problems. :thumleft:
And fish, with the job you are doing. Your not going to have any problems at all. :salut:
-
The upside for me is that no matter what I might use, if I do it even half right, I'll be dead and gone before it needs redoing. :cheers:
And who says old age doesn't have its benefits. :mrgreen:
As SB states, the proper encapsulation of whatever coring material you use is the foundation and penetration sealing the key.
My wife has commented many times on my loss of structural integrity to which I lay blame on poor encapsulation from the factory.
"Encapsulation my butt. Try excess inebriation". Therefore I try not to spill too much "bug juice" on the deck. :idea:
She makes a strong point in that the deck of my 91 is stiffer than me. :(
-
:thumright: :mrgreen:
-
I did mention something about "get soft with age" but I did not have the kahunies to carry forward with the next thought set.
However, I have now been inspired by a higher power :mrgreen: so....
"But hey, they have medication for that."
-
Hey Gran, have you ever seen Jeff Durhams, puppet Walter. ( my wife swears he modeled him afterme) You don’t need them Just the age. :thumright:
Now back to the wood. No pun intended. I may go with well encapsulated A-C fur for nonstructural areas. And either okuame or marine plywood for structural areas. But I would still like to hear from some others some maybe in the bis, that are on the board, hu, maybe, yea??????? I hope so. :mrgreen:
-
Salt, thanks!
Seamark doesn't use marine ply due to the moisture content. He is tickled pink with the AC fir, everywhere. It is very strong....and pretty darn impressive.
If you are cool on not making a decision within the next couple days....hang loose, I'm going out there this week.
He's working on a new one right now. I'll take some pics and post up right here.
Thanks
-
A friend of mine who is a boat builder told me once that if there were any one perfect material to build boats with he'd be able to build the perfect boat and if that were the case, he'd be a rich man! He put the transom in mine after I got it a few years ago before the rebuild process of the rebuild from that guy in Tampa :x , and we discussed that the wood in the transom had been in there for 36 years so, put wood right back in it. My feelings were what Bob said, I will be dead and gone before I hope to have to replace it again.
What is amazing is that everyone has varying opinions as which material should or shouldn't be used. I found when inquiring about putting another deck down recently going from shop to shop is that what one shop would use another wouldn't. They all may not have really talked bad about the other product they just felt that what they were using was superior then the other.
-
Gran thanks, that would be much appreciated. I’m not in a hurry and would like to see what pic’s you take. :thumleft:
Short one thing I’ve learned over the years, and that is to listen to people that know their field. But I’ve also learned that when they are competing with other companies. They will always say what they do is better. To get the bis. :thumright:
-
SP, probably its because its what they've always done, what they're comfortable with. My guy up here...his work is right there. But initially this was all new to him. The Coosa Bluewater...first time he'd ever used it. Nidacore too. The divinycell he had worked, as he does aquariums for the state. It all goes back to what they are used to, skilled with. And most of the time, with a family shop....it's "just how we do it."
Can't wait to post the pics of his AC fir transom/stringers. Beefy stuff.
A lot to be said for a quality build....as Seabob eloquently stated, its the encapsulation/glasswork that matters.
edit after the post:
Salt, thanks, you got it, pics this week :thumright:
-
Eloquent? Eloquent? Damn, them's fightin' words...
BRB, gotta go look it up...
-
Eloquent? Eloquent? Damn, them's fightin' words...
BRB, gotta go look it up...
It means you have way with words, you know, elegant :mrgreen:
-
The one thing I didn't see mentioned in this discussion was the fact that these boats were built with polyester, and polyester is not completely water resistant. That is were most of the rotting transom, and waterlogged foam issues come, not to mention folks drilling and screwing holes without proper sealing. I'll be starting on mine soon and plan to use Okoume plywood throughout. the key is total and complete encapsulation, wich can be taken with a grain of salt depending on who is doing the work.
I actually just sent an email today (to a member of the forum), and we are having this same basic conversation (foam vs. wood). First of all, the way I see it the fir that was put in the transom of my boat is still there today, so 46 years aint too shabby. I also don't think I'll be around another 46 years so wood it is. Plus the cost of foam vs. the cost of wood vs. the weight difference equation drives me towards the wood.
In case ya didn't notice, my vote is for the wood... :lol: :lol:
But, I figure the guy spending the money should be the one to decide what goes in his boat. My opinion is just one of probably millions on the interwebs! :cheers:
-
Cally, good post. Glad you're back too :thumright:
The poly isn't the culprit on the transom rot. Neither is the internal plywood.
If they could have somehow built boats without bilge transom drains....none of the transoms would be rotten.
The bilge transom drain...the outer brass SLEEVE is the culprit. They didn't have 5200 back in the sixties/seventies...Life Caulk (polysulfide) was the status quo. So on the install, they bedded the sleeve to the exposed internal transom plywood core with the best they had, polysulfide caulk or the equivalent. Had 5200 been available, probably wouldn't have mattered over the course of forty years. Eventually, the seal on the sleeve deteriorated/broke.
So the boat is in the water, with the lowest part of the boat leaking water. Directly into the plywood.
Water seeks it's own level. The water gradually makes its way up to water level (waterline level) through the years. A slow process. The more the hull is in the water...the wetter it gets, and the faster it happens. Once the water, through osmosis...rises upward through the transom.. the heavier the boat gets, going lower. Pressure increases...water rises faster, up through the plywood core.
And the water is trapped. Rot sets in.
We look at the rebuilds today, all of the soft mush is at the bottom. Closer to the top, sometimes wood is left. But most of the time, the boys are describing pulling out what is left with their bare hands. a fully saturated old transom...300 pounds gone.
On the rebuild, leave the rear fiberglass transom skin on if possible. Serves a few purposes. Keeps the hull shape intact and stable...gives something to build to....and if you're into "classic" ....keeps your imbedded hull numbers preserved.
-
Gran, you are right. When you use to using something, and have for a long time, you become very good at using it.
callyb Now there is a point that does get pasted over once in a while. I’m not using polyester, even though all boats are built with it and it is still a good product. I’m using vinylester, which is stronger then polyester and I believe it resists water better then polyester. It cost a little more, but no were near as costly as epoxy. i almost for got. I'm also using 1708 biaxial glass. I'm getting it for $9 a yard, so I'm ordering 20 yards. I'm not using it all at once. but at that price. I'm going to get it while I can.
-
I need wires, then I'll be happy...
-
Just make sure they're .040 gauge like mine. You won't regret the extra .2 cents per wire.
-
Damn Scott, I started typing that and had to walk away for a little while, stupid work getting in the way of me b.s.ing on the internet...anyway my point is I wouldn't have rehashed some of the points you had already made. :oops:
-
Naw, all good Cally!
Got the girl all tucked in for the winter?
-
Gran your absoulutely right regarding how shops just do it there way and I understand that completely having been in construction prior to my job now. From speaking with the guy that did my transom it did come down to cost and weight for me at the time. My transom is solid as a rock after having used to pieces of 3/4 ply with bonded with resin, after holes were drilled in each piece for the resin to seep into them for a tighter bond. The problem was application of the wood as experienced by me recently! The prior shop installed all of the thru-hull fittings without either waxing each hole or even putting a little resin to seal the wood prior. Also, the id**t used at least one plastic fitting below the water line and don't hold me to this but, I wouldn't be surprised to save money that poly-caulk was used instead of 5200. Now, at the shop it's at now those issues were discovered and will be sealed correctly adding to the longevity of the wood that's in there now.
I will say that a friend of mine poured his transom and I always noticed his boat sat lower in the water then mine. About a month later he called me and sounded like that car window commercial, "and crack!"
Wow, look at me more then two posts in a month!!! Hate computers..lol
-
Walt the key to me is cost and weight.
It seems the vast majority of the folks here are custom one off builders with the propensity for doing the best job they know how. I am pretty sure that what CB4 :mrgreen: wrote about proper application and encapsulation will apply to anything that a member attempts because we want to do it right and most likely will do “just a little more” because none of us wants to get back in there to fix it again.. Rybovich has been glassing over cold molded cedar strips since like 1950 with fantastic results. Scotty’s point about the drain tubes and polysulfide is right on, especially when the dang outer flange on the drain tube corrodes off..
Bit of a ramble..
I like epoxy and wood because I have used them to build skiffs and kayaks. I used vynalester and AC to do the deck of an old Formula.. If I have to do the transom of the Osprey I am really interested in the pour concept, I don’t know squat about other then I have read here but I will learn some more before I pull the trigger with the goal being the lightest weight and highest strength with the least disruption of the surrounding area(maybe pouring isn't the ansewer..) .
I think it boils down to what do you want to work with and what result do you want? Our boats are gonna out live us because we care about what we do to them, so previous history with water intrusion will probably not be an issue.
This doesn’t answer the question but as I am dulling up the saw blade I think I’d rather smell burnt cedar rather than melted plastic..
:salut:
-
Hey saltfly, are you getting the 1708 in 50" width? Check the price on this link if you haven't ordered yet.
http://uscomposites.com/specialty.html (http://uscomposites.com/specialty.html)
-
Poured transoms. Always reminds me of one day at the plant...
My Cuban buddy Tony is prepping a transom on an Explorer to hang a motor, drilling the engine mounting holes. He comes over to me and says, "Bobby, come here." I follow him over and his drill is hanging from the bit in the hole. He pulls at the drill...and it springs back in the hole! WTF?!..Pulls hard, and out comes a finger of a yellow rubber glove wound around the drill bit! Starts digging, gets another finger and various pieces of that glove...
At least no real fingers were inside of that glove! :shock: :shock:
-
D you and Bob are right, using what your familiar with and doing it the right way is the best. I also think when using matl. Your use to using, you will do it right. Their has been a lot of boats rebuilt here, and they have been shared with use , so we can all learn from what others are doing and how their doing it. Thats why sites like this are important for those wanting to learn how to. I think those boats will be around and being used and enjoyed. Long after we are all gone. No more important legacy can be left, just like the original builders left for use. Which at the time using the best that was available to them. :thumleft:
Hey Bob, didn’t happen to find Jimmy huffa in their did you???? I know I know that was terrible. But I couldn’t help myself. :twisted:
Slvrlng thanks for that site. I book marked it. Their prices are very good. I may rethink were I’m getting my glass. See another reason this site is such a great site. :thumleft:
I’m also still wondering about the man made woods and how fiberglass holds to it. i may have to do a test peice.
-
Walt,
One composite I can certainly vouch for is Coosa board. It behaves basically just like wood, at 1/4 to 1/3 the weight, virtually no water absorbtion. At Proline, all our transoms were Coosa Bluewater 26, the Pro-Lite series boats, the entire cockpit sole was Bluewater 20 (kept costs down). Excellent glass adhesion.
One of our tests when deciding to use it was to submerge a piece in a tub of saltwater for 2 weeks, weighing before and after. No change in weight after that period. I'd say that's a little more drastic than what the average boat might see, but it certainly was indicative of the properties of the material. We used a piece we cut out from the middle of a 2 X 4 foot piece so the ends were not sealed in any way...
-
Saltfly. I agree with Lewis, I got all my woven materials at uscomposites and they were priced lower and shipped real quick, I think in all I had orderd around 3 rolls of 4in,8in,12in, glass( 1 roll each for tabbing,150 ft each) and about 30 yards total of cloth in differing weaves and weights...I also used only epoxy in my rebuild..I figure by the time it goes bad I will be ashes in the ocean and she will be someone elses baby..
-
Gman thanks I think I may just give them a try. Their prices are very good, and when you need a lot of matl., you have to save were you can. :thumleft:
-
Here are the pics of a Seamark boat under construction. This is all AC fir plywood. The stringer tops will be glassed next, then the deck installed.
They use block foam for flotation.
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/IMG_1508.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/IMG_1509.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/IMG_1510.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/IMG_1511.jpg)
-
Hey Gran thanks for the pic’s. Much appreciated. They really do a good job. The block foam isn’t a bad idea. You can use it as a filler and use a little spray in foam to take up the rest of the room and hold in the blocks as well. Which will save some money in the long run. I’ve never seen that block foam soak up water. They use it under floating docks around here. Those docks last a long time as well. As for the AC fir, it looks good, I only see a few voids and they will be close up when glassed over, so water will never intrude. Using it has got to be a big cost saver and make their boats very competitively priced with know loss in strength. The like added weight will only help the ride. I remember as a kid going out on those old all wood boats. Man did they ride great. there are three boats being restored at the marina not far from me. One 42 foot Viking, one 35 foot egg harbor and the third, I’m not sure of the make,its about 38 foot. The builders name has been removed for carom plating. Those guys are investing a lot of money on those wooden boats. That says a lot for them. :thumleft:
-
Gran, you are right. When you use to using something, and have for a long time, you become very good at using it.
callyb Now there is a point that does get pasted over once in a while. I’m not using polyester, even though all boats are built with it and it is still a good product. I’m using vinylester, which is stronger then polyester and I believe it resists water better then polyester. It cost a little more, but no were near as costly as epoxy. i almost for got. I'm also using 1708 biaxial glass. I'm getting it for $9 a yard, so I'm ordering 20 yards. I'm not using it all at once. but at that price. I'm going to get it while I can.
Just to let you know US Composites has 1708 for $6.40 yrd when you order 10-24 yrds. I finally bought a roll this week so that should get me through the bracket and any other things i still want to do.
oh well after reading on through the thread i see others have chimed in. I have ordered a lot from them and i am happy with them.
-
Thanks fish its good to get input from others who have had dealings with a company and have good things to say about them. I'm going to put in an order with them. :thumleft:
-
I can't find the thread regarding Rick's question on fiberglassing AC fir plywood decking. So will post it here. Please move it to the correct thread as you see fit, thanks.
Seamark uses a single layer of 1 1/2 oz. matt underneath. Three to four layers of 1 1/2 oz matt on top.
Where the floor meets the side of the hull, and where meets any curves, knees, etc.....they use woven roving.
-
Thanks Scott, top and bottom as it pertains to a piece of plywood on it's edge? Like you see the stringers on edge? So 1 layer where the stringer meets the hull and 3 where it whould meet the underside of the floor?
-
Thanks Scott, top and bottom as it pertains to a piece of plywood on it's edge? Like you see the stringers on edge? So 1 layer where the stringer meets the hull and 3 where it whould meet the underside of the floor?
Just to be exact, speaking of the actual deck (floor).
One layer of mat applied to the deck underneath where it rests on top of the stringers.
Then three layers of mat applied to the TOP of the deck, where the deck it is exposed to the elements. Then sprayed gel. So you will mount your console to three layers of mat over AC fir plywood, then sprayed gel, then a final coat of nonskid in the final (second) coat of finish gel outside of the console.
Where the deck meets the sides, and ANY curves, risers etc. there on the deck...join/strengthen with roving during the deck install.
-
I gotcha. That makes sense now.
-
Does anyone have any experience with Greenwood Ply Dek XL from Overtons? Its a kiln dried, pressure treated marine ply that supposedly you can glass to. I googled it to see what real people had to say about in in post and blogs. Everyone seems to rave about it but it is not clear in anything I have found if they are heavily glassing it like when using it for a floor. The cost is quite affordable at about $90 a board plus about $20 to get it here. Marine ply locally is about $100 a board (3/4) and its not pressure treated. Im looking at it to do the floor of my 1979 246 CCP. I want to close off the transom and install a bracket but for that i am sold on SeaCast pourable transom as i want it to be 2 inches thick where the bracket bolts are and then 1 inch where its fairly decorative wello above the water line. Not to get off topic, does anyone have any experience with the Greenwood Ply Dek XL? Will vinylester resin hold to it well for use as a floor?
-
I figured it is just something Overton's is selling... I assume this is the company who makes it:
http://www.greenwoodproducts.com/store/marine-plywood/plydek.html
-
Marine vs. Exterior:
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/marine ... PRDo1LiETA (http://www.doityourself.com/stry/marine-plywood-vs-exterior-plywood#.UPRDo1LiETA)
Tried to find the average moisture content of AC fir....the product from Overton's seems high on the moisture content :scratch:
-
Lowes sells kiln dried marine ply - $80ish/sht
-
Rick, its not so much the kiln drying as it is the chemical "pressure treating" that makes this wood virtually rot proof supossedly. Thats my attraction to it to not have to worry entirely about making everything 100% waterproof... which we all know is practically impossible. It seems like a great product for a floor
-
Wingtime... yes thats the one. I have seen that site as well. Im looking for someone that has actually used it a long time ago to let me know how its holding up.
-
Im thinking that if I were to use the Greenwood PlyDek XL for my floor, I wouldnt even have to encapsulate the underside of the floor. Not only is the wood chemically rot resistant, but leaving the underside open would allow it do dry even more should there be some sort of breech allowing water to get in.
Im pretty set on going this route. I have heard and respect the arguements about using basic materials or AC fir, but this plywood seems like a great way to go to add one more layer of assurance of it not happening again.
I have looked into Nidacore but aside from the price, its just too involved for me to get a screw to hold well. I also looked into Coosa which I liked much better but the cost is over 3 times thats of ply and it too has "less than ply" screw holding ability. I need 5 sheets.. I cant see spending $1,600 just on Coosa.
-
I called Tony Pieper - Marine Sales Manager - Phone: 800-698-6041 for Greenwood, and he assured me that fiberglass sticks just as well to the XL. He said the primary sale of that plywood is for glassed over decks and no one has had any issues.
Im planning on getting started in the spring so ill let everyone know over the next few years how it goes!
-
I was going to suggest you give them a call to ask them just that! Great find!
I'm not so sure about not laminating the bottom of the plywood. Most bilges I have seen are very damp and nasty. Also the bottom layups are put under tension when a load is placed on the deck adding considerable strength much like a truss.
-
Koz, that last sentence sounds like me :lol: hey, at least you're honest :wink:
The benefit of a coat of something underneath is the wood isn't inundated with moisture 24/7 from the bilge. The plys may not rot so easily...but they can delam.
Many folks just roll on a coat or two of poly resin...but glass would be better, as Bruce mentions.
-
Wingtime, I didnt think of the structural aspect of it working truss like, and true about the delam. Ok, im sold, i will glass the bottom with a biaxal coat or two and some Vinylester resin.
-
When I replaced my foor in the 170 14 years ago I sealed the bottom of the plywood (5/8") with poly resin and it looked like the day I put it in, when I tore it out a few weeks back. I may put some 1.5oz mat on it this time to beef it up - the glass is cheap enough. Maybe think about going with 5/8" to save some cash and add glass to the bottom to beef it up. Obviously you're going to glass the topside. Either way you'll end up with 3/4" or more anyway.
-
RickK,
Turns out that i am kind of stuck with the 3/4 if I want to go with thew Greenwood XL as it is the only thickness that Overtons carries. Greenwood does not sell by the piece. He gave me a distributor in SC "service industry supply" in Wando SC that carries 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4 but I am yet to call them and see what their deal is. He wasnt even sure if they were a retail distributor. Either way im okay with the 3/4. The 20 or so weight difference for the 5 sheets isnt going to make a difference.